FW-190 - How Good Was It, Really?

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The museum flies a P-47G Thunderbolt, an F4U-1a Corsair, the last airworthy SBD Dauntless, A TBM Avenger, several AT-6 Texans, a B-25 Mitchell, the last Seversky AT-12 Guardsman(2-seat P-35), a Boeing P-26 Peashooter, an A-1 Skyraider, an A6M5 Model 52 Zero, and a Flugwerk Fw 190 replica (R-2800 radial). We see F7F Tigercats regularly along with Sea Furies. All fly very well. The Fw 190 had oil temp issues until they added some extra underwing oil coolers. It isn't exactly stock, but it works. All have systems differing from one another. The Zero has some really neat systems and linkages. The rudder trim comes to mind as do the cowl flaps. The wartime Fw 190 had a single-lever throttle that we didn't particularly like unless flying combat. Then it was very good. Otherwise (95% of the time) it was not really finely adjustable in our tests.

German planes that I have worked on (Bf 109, Bf 108, Jungmeister) are well made, but nothing out of the ordinary. I have not worked on the Flugwerk airplane and likely won't.

I heard rumors that the Zero was poorly made. When I got to work on it, the opposite was true, It was pretty well made and had neat systems. Since it has low installed power, the skin was light and no excess weight was added. Other than that, it was conventionally well made. The F8F Bearcat has a QEC (quick engine change) module consisting of the mount, engine, oil tank, etc. Remove and replace, go fly.

So far, I can't see anything that one nation did a lot better, worse, or differently than the others with the exception of the lightweight Zero due to modest engine. The same designer's next project (J2M Raiden) is made like a U.S. fighter since he had 1,850 HP to work with. We have the last one (static display). The British tend to use more hardware than anyone else, but it goes together to make a good airplane. For my money, there isn't a whole lot of difference among them with the exception that the U.S.A. tends to build a bit beefier with slightly thicker metal. It shows up particularly on Naval aircraft.

We also have a Yak-3 (non-radial, some a MiG-15 bis, and used to operate an old AN-2.

They are about equal with the Soviet hardware being just a bit crude by comparison, but effectively made. All fly well.

Aerial leaders, pilots, and pilot training made the difference. To be more correct, we also had good mechanics and a top-notch logistics system, coupled with effective pilot replacement training. All contributed, and logistics hardly ever gets the credit it deserves. When you have regular spare parts and good mechanics, it certainly helps the war effort on the front lines. Parts don't make, transport, and stock themselves. We also had a very good supply of tools that many other nations lacked on the front lines.

A lot of places we left quickly after the war still drive WWII jeeps!
 
Perhaps someone that has examined other radial fighters can add more. What about Fw 190 evaluation in the UK/US?

The Hawker Centaurus fighter went from this
Hawker-Tornado-Centaurus-HG641.jpg


Hawker Tornado in 1941(?)

To this

053fb6b70ab08dc3684205295c2bd79e.jpg


Hawker Tempest II in 1944(?).

Having evaluated one of these in 1942

Fw_190A-3_JG_2_in_Britain_1942.jpg


There seems to have been some influence on the engine installation.

Meanwhile, the Grumman F8F shows some similarities, such as the exhausts all coming out on the sides, but not others - still used cooling gills around teh circumference, rather than the side outlets on the Fw 190A and Tempest II

Grumman_XF8F-1_Bearcat_1945.jpg
 
....Having evaluated one of these in 1942

View attachment 480231

There seems to have been some influence on the engine installation.

Meanwhile, the Grumman F8F shows some similarities, such as the exhausts all coming out on the sides, but not others - still used cooling gills around teh circumference, rather than the side outlets on the Fw 190A and Tempest II View attachment 480232


This is probably as good a time as any to bring this up. Could someone please provide some substantiated proof that Grumman, being so impressed by what they saw in a captured example, was inspired to copy many of the FW-190 design features while engineering the F8F? To me it still retained much of the 'cat' pedigree, and on the surface I see little if anything related to the German fighter, other than being trimmed down a bit in order to capitalize on weight savings to improve speed and climb rate. Any physical resemblance at all between these two aircraft is purely coincidental IMHO. I say this because Grumman had already laid most of the ground work for the fighter BEFORE flight testing of a captured FW-190 by the allies even occurred.

I'd really like to know the truth regarding this, and not just rumors or off-handed comments made over time (Corky Myer included). Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to dismiss the idea entirely. I just want more proof and less here say, that's all.

Could this be just another legend that became fact over time, similar to the wrongly held belief that the Zero inspired the design of the Hellcat? I'm starting to think so...
 
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The Zero has some really neat systems and linkages. The rudder trim comes to mind as do the cowl flaps....
I heard rumors that the Zero was poorly made. When I got to work on it, the opposite was true, It was pretty well made and had neat systems..

While not having nearly the extensive hands-on background with WWII airplanes as yourself, from what I have ascertained over the years I feel exactly as you do regarding the aeronautical engineering capabilities of the Japanese. They were very good craftsmen and designers and were able to manufacture quality aircraft for most of the war. But similar to the situation in Germany, their aircraft suffered from poor workmanship and shoddy materials as the war progressed against them, which in turn hampered their overall performance.

The Japanese were a very formidable enemy and their technological prowess caught the West totally by surprise. And while we did find the Zero rather easy to burn, all aircraft would be easier to bring down without armor protection or self-sealing fuel tanks. This was more of an error in design philosophy, rather than inferior quality or workmanship.
 
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The designer didn't make the error. They gave him an 880 hp radial and asked for performance to match an Allied fighter with perhaps 1,350 - 1,500 hp. To make it work, something had to go, and the obvious answer was weight in the form of armor and self-sealing tanks. His next design, the J2M Raiden, DID have armor and self-sealing tanks since he had 1,850 hp to work with.

The error, if there even was one, was with the IJN specifications that constrained the engine choices.
 
The Japanese were a very formidable enemy and their technological prowess caught the West totally by surprise. And while we did find the Zero rather easy to burn, all aircraft would be easier to bring down without armor protection or self-sealing fuel tanks. This was more of an error in design philosophy, rather than inferior quality or workmanship.

The Zero had a prodigious range.
 
I believe that over the years there has been some racial prejudice towards the capability of the Japanese military as a whole. The notion that the German pilots we faced in European skies were somehow innately superior to what we were confronting in the Pacific is just another example of this archaic mindset.
 
I believe that over the years there has been some racial prejudice towards the capability of the Japanese military as a whole. The notion that the German pilots we faced in European skies were somehow innately superior to what we were confronting in the Pacific is just another example of this archaic mindset.
Darren, wars are all about racial and other prejudice, if you don't have a racial difference you manufacture one and obliterate the similarities. This is how the Anglo Saxon British suddenly started calling their closest trading partner and cultural cousins "The Hun" and the royal family discovered they were called "Windsor" and not Saxe Coberg Gothe.
 
Darren, wars are all about racial and other prejudice, if you don't have a racial difference you manufacture one and obliterate the similarities. This is how the Anglo Saxon British suddenly started calling their closest trading partner and cultural cousins "The Hun" and the royal family discovered they were called "Windsor" and not Saxe Coberg Gothe.

Precisely....
 
The designer of the Zero, Jiro Horikoshi, wrote a book entitled "Eagles of Mitsubishi, The Story of the Zero Fighter". It is a little gem I would recommend it to anyone, as it deals with the process of designing a fighter.

Horikoshi points out again and again how the weight of the Zero was reduced (new aluminium alloy for example), him cheking every component which was above certain % of the total weight to make sure it was the best option. As you say, he states that with available power, no other aircraft had a similar performance.

Regarding Japanese quality, later in the war there were issues as manufacturers had to use unskilled labour and teenagers. Also, there were no resources (or time) to carry out checks and tests. However, to quantify this phenomenon is not possible. Maybe you got your hands on a earlier type or one that had been selected because it was in good condition.

Greg, regarding maintenance, working on a P-47/F4U, is it very different to Fw 190? I am talking about ease of access, time needed to do something and so on. It is also pointed out as one of the advantages of the Fw 190 (wrt to Bf 109).
 
The designer didn't make the error. They gave him an 880 hp radial and asked for performance to match an Allied fighter with perhaps 1,350 - 1,500 hp. To make it work, something had to go, and the obvious answer was weight in the form of armor and self-sealing tanks. His next design, the J2M Raiden, DID have armor and self-sealing tanks since he had 1,850 hp to work with.

The error, if there even was one, was with the IJN specifications that constrained the engine choices.

Hello GregP,
The specifications were tough enough that Nakajima did not even submit an entry.
There were performance requirements and dimensional requirements to fit the standard elevator.
Engine choices were not constrained either but to stay with company products there was the choice of either a Zuisei or Kinsei.

A you pointed out, these guys wanted a new design that had the performance equal or superior to current fighters, maneuverability equal to the last generation of fighter, equipment and ability to operate from a carrier and range that was two or three times that of other current fighters
Makes you wonder what would have happened if Mitsubishi had also turned down the project.

Hello DarrenW,
Do you happen to have a copy of Corkey Meyer's Flight Journal?
I don't have mine handy to confirm but I saw in another forum that a discussion regarding FW 190 can be found on page 144.

- Ivan.
 
Hello DarrenW,
Do you happen to have a copy of Corkey Meyer's Flight Journal?
I don't have mine handy to confirm but I saw in another forum that a discussion regarding FW 190 can be found on page 144.

- Ivan.

Hi Ivan,
No I do not have that journal myself, I've just seen excerpts from it. I will try to hunt it down however. Thank you.
 
I bet our fighters would have had great range, too, if they could have cruised at the same horsepower as the Zero did when going for range! Likely, they'd have dropped out of the sky at that power level, though.
 
Regarding Japanese quality, later in the war there were issues as manufacturers had to use unskilled labour and teenagers.

From Mitsubishi J2M - Wikipedia :

The struggle to meet production demands sparked a Japanese initiative to recruit shonenko (child labour) from Taiwan (Formosa). Though the target of 25,000 youths was never reached, over 8,400 Taiwanese youths aged 12 to 14 relocated to Mitsubishi plants to help build the J2M Raiden....
 
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I believe you are wrong, mcoffee. Ours is the last flyable original SBD.

All the others are Army A-24s converted to SBD confirguration with the addition of a tailhook and other Naval gear, IF the conversion was done at all. The A-24 was an SBD without the Naval gear installed in it for the USAAC, and the dataplate should say A-24, assuming you can find it.
 
I believe you are wrong, mcoffee. Ours is the last flyable original SBD.

All the others are Army A-24s converted to SBD confirguration with the addition of a tailhook and other Naval gear, IF the conversion was done at all. The A-24 was an SBD without the Naval gear installed in it for the USAAC, and the dataplate should say A-24, assuming you can find it.

Negative, the CAF Dixie Wing's Dauntless is SBD-5, not an A-24.

http://dixiewing.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/CAF-Douglas-SBD-5-Dauntless-BuAer-54532-.pdf
 

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