FW-190 - How Good Was It, Really?

[GregP]

Interesting, and thanks for the information.

I wonder, if there were two 54532 SNs, how they know which one this particular one is? I am assuming they looked at the data plate and it says SBD-5 (I am assuming it is not a replacement dataplate). The Dixie Wing would know, and I can find out easily enough.

Our information at Planes of Fame indicates the Dixie Wing flies an A-24, but I have no reason to disbelieve you about it, and there are plenty of friends in the Dixie Wing.

Cheers.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Greg,

There is whole world of aviation history not found at your museum...

 

[GregP]

And a whole world of it to be found there, too, Chris.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

US Navy and US Marine Corps BuNos--Third Series (50360 to 60009)

54050/54599 Douglas SBD-5 Dauntless

54532. Accepted by US Navy March 3, 1944; Bureau of Aeronautics General Representative,
Los Angeles, CA August 1944; Bureau of Aeronautics General Representative, Baltimore, MD
June 1945; NAS Norfolk, VA December 1946; SOC February 8, 1947; War Assets Administration
[sale document lists serial number as 42-54532]; Andy Stinis / Skywriting Corp of America;
Registered NL1339V; SS Pike Company, New York, NY March 9, 1950; Registration cancelled October 24, 1951
to export to Mexico; Compania Mexicana Aerofoto, Mexico City October 18, 1951; Registered XB-QUC;
Paul Mantz & Frank G. Tallman/ Tallmantz Aviation/Movieland of the Air, Orange County CA 1964;
Ed Maloney/ The Air Museum, Ontario CA January 11, 1966; Robert L. Griffin, San Antonio TX March 4, 1971;
Donated to the Confederate Air Force; Hoisted aboard USS Nimitz 1975 for the retirement ceremony of
Admiral Ralph W Cousins; Registered N54532; Confederate Air Force, Harlingen/ Midland TX October 1978;
Substantially damaged at Rockford IL July 3, 1981 when the landing gear retracted on the landing roll;
WFU at Harlingen 1988, trucked to Griffin GA 1995 for restoration to fly 1995/1999;
Confederate Air Force, Midland TX August 1996; registered N82GA to the American Airpower Heritage Flying Museum, Dallas, TX
September 10, 1991, current [Jun17]; ff Atlanta-Peach Tree GA February 1999 as USN "5";
Forced landing due engine failure, Deland-Bob Lee, FL November 13, 2004;
current with the Commemorative Air Force Dixie Wing, Peachtree City, GA. At on time, it was
thought that the plane with American Airpower Heritage Flying Museum,
Midland, TX as N82GA marked as SBD-5 54532 was really A-24B 42-54532.


1942 USAAF Serial Numbers (42-50027 to 42-57212)

42-54460/54649 Douglas A-24B-10-DT Dauntless

54532 (MSN 17371) Delivered to USAAF September 14, 1943; flown to Oakland, CA, then to Long Beach, C where it was
loaded on a ship and taken to the Hawaiian Air Depot, Hickam Army Air Field in Hawaii;
420th Sub Depot, 7th Air Force; Condemned July 31, 1944 as missing due to enemy action

 

[Ivan1GFP]

A little more information on USAAF serial numbers from this site:

1941: Serial Numbers do not go that high.

1942:
Douglas A-24B as listed above

1943: Serial Numbers do not go that high.

1944:
44-53328/54707 Lockheed P-38L-5-LO Lightning
Contract cancelled.

1945:
45-2562/2675 Douglas C-117A
45-2676/4400 Contract cancelled

This last one is a stretch. I don't think the SBD was in production by 1945 but on the off chance that
54532 is short for 45-4532.....

Hope this helps.
- Ivan.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And a whole world of it to be found there, too, Chris.

I'm only messing with you...

 

[GregP]

OK, Chris. You have a world of experience up on me, and I'd bet on your data most anytime. Our founder, Ed Maloney, was told, at one time, that it was an A-24, and we never really looked into it after that because when you find out, you generally stop looking ... last time I spoke with the CAF Dixie Wing guys, they had issues with their P-63. That was a few years back.

Nice to know there are two SBDs. For myself, I'd as soon see an A-24 fly as an SBD since they are the same airframe. I'll pass this on so we have correct information displayed.

 

[DarrenW]

Some interesting observations of the FW-190A-5 by Japanese pilots....

WildEagles: Japanese Focke-Wulf Fw 190

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Some interesting observations of the FW-190A-5 by Japanese pilots....

WildEagles: Japanese Focke-Wulf Fw 190

Interesting, thanks for the link!

 

[DarrenW]

Interesting, thanks for the link!

No problem. It's rare to find first-hand accounts of the Japanese flying their own machines, let alone those belonging to another nation.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

No problem. It's rare to find first-hand accounts of the Japanese flying their own machines, let alone those belonging to another nation.

Hello DarrenW,
It actually isn't all that hard to find first hand accounts by Japanese pilots. The "Aircraft of the Aces: series has a bunch but although I have come across a few, I didn't note down which books they were in and where. From other discussions, I have heard that the Ki 61 / Ki 100 book by Nick Millman has a few. I have seen quotes in the forums from that particular book because I have been chasing information for he Ki 61 series.
I actually flipped through a copy of that book in a local hobby shop just before Christmas but didn't buy it. (Got so many books it is hard to store them.) That particular hobby shop closed for the last time last weekend. Next closest is now 15 miles away.

- Ivan.

 

[DarrenW]

Well I guess I'll have to look a little harder from now on then. It has been a little time since I actively sought out books pertaining to the memoirs of Japanese combat pilots.

 

[Juha2]

My take is that fit & finish of Soviet aircrat improved after 1942, and especially after 1943. For example, they measured some 15 km/h improvement for Yak fighters manufactured in 1943 vs. those from 1942, and up to 30 km/h for LaGG-3, all for same engine power.
La-7 was barely faster than La-5 where attention was paid to the fit and finish for both machines.

Incomplete translation by yours truly:

View attachment 479126

Hello Tomo
thanks a lot for posting the page!
some questions
what is the source?
The meaning of * and **
To my understanding the La-5FN 648 km/h was the La-5FN proto and the series a/c, at least early on had max speed of c. 615 km/h.

TIA
Juha

 

[tomo pauk]

Hello Tomo
thanks a lot for posting the page!
some questions
what is the source?
The meaning of * and **
To my understanding the La-5FN 648 km/h was the La-5FN proto and the series a/c, at least early on had max speed of c. 615 km/h.

TIA
Juha

Source is the "Istoriia konstruktskii samoletov v SSSR, 1938-1950 gg." by Shavrov. Sorta bible on Soviet A/C. Many of the tables from that book are translated on Spanish (in HTML = can be easily translated further) and posted here.
* = A/C was produced in meaningful numbers
** = A/C was mass produced
Please note that the last La-5 from the table I've posted was powered by the M-71 radial engine of 2000 CV, 18 cyl.
Prototypes of Soviet A/C in ww2 tended to fly much faster than mass-produced examples. The Il-2 being the worst offender.

 

[Juha2]

Hello Tomo
thanks a lot!
Much appreciated
Juha

 

[Ivan1GFP]

..........
Methane, Ethane, Propane, Butane, Pentane, Hexane, Heptane, Octane, Nonane, Decane....

- Ivan.

Off Topic but sometimes children will surprise you.
My Son is taking AP Chemistry as a High School Sophomore. There is nothing unusual about that.
It is one of the few subjects he is actually doing well in.
Tonight, I asked him if he knew what an Alkane was.
He gave me the definition and listed the first five which for me are the hardest to remember and even gave me the chemical formula for a couple.
Maybe he is learning something after all.

- Ivan.

 

[alejandro_]

I have put together a graph comparing the maximum speed of different Allied fighters with that of Fw 190 A-1. I have aimed for types available in August 1941. It is fair to say that the Fw has a good advantage over all of them. The other advantages (dive, climb, firepower) have also been mentioned before. Even if there were childhood diseases, it offered many advantages until well into 1942.

Maybe some of the readers can make more suggestions on what to compare it with. P-47 were introduced some time later, end of 1941. Mustangs with Allison engine started flying combat sorties in May 1942. P-38D/E could be added, but I have not found any performance data.

 

[Shortround6]

P-47s weren't flying in numbers higher than one until March of 1942, first issue to a service squadron wasn't until June of 1942. This squadron won't be declared operational until Nov 1942.

See: P-38 Performance Tests

for some early P-38 performance data.
There were 36 P-38Ds completed by the beginning of Sept 1941, Production P-38s start to show up at end of Oct or beginning of Nov.
P-38Fs start to show up in Feb 1942 at the factory door. Getting them overseas takes a while.

 

[alejandro_]

Many thanks Shortround6. I will have a look to the P-38 data to update the chart. I also plan to create another with the climb performance.

I made a typo when mentioning the P-47, as you say it is end of 1942.

 

[DarrenW]

I have a question regarding the ETC 501 rack carried by the FW-190. It is said that the speed of the airplane would be reduced by approx. 8 mph at ground level and by 10 mph at roughly 20,000 feet altitude. I thought this loss to be somewhat high, given that it was only a single rack. I looked at few pictures and noticed that the wheel well doors that cover the tires are also missing. Was this normally the case when the rack was installed? To me, it doesn't look like they would fully open if installed due to the width of the rack. If this is true then the amount of speed loss is definitely plausible because of the extra drag incurred by their absence.

Also, could the lower portion of the rack be readily removed in order to decrease drag, or was it permanently attached to the top fuselage mounting?