fubar57
General
Did good Michael. I'm all in favour of the 2 year plan
GB nominations for builds after GB 39
- Thread starter parsifal
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Donivanp
Captain
I might agree, how many times can I do BoB? There is a large selection of WWII aircraft types but sometimes getting a more open selection , outside WWII helps liven it up. I like what your doing. Good on you.
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Thank you for all of your hard work Michael! I don't agree with the conclusions that you've reached but I recognize that one viewpoint is just as valid as the next. Here is mine. There are many different modeling message boards. The ones that I know of that deal with scale aircraft and are in English include Hyperscale, Large Scale Planes, Large Scale Models, Scale Plastic Aircraft Modeling, Finescale Modeler, Aeroscale, International Scale Modeler, Britmodeller. All of these have group builds and participation in the group builds varies on each of these sites varies. What differentiates WW2aircraft.net from the others, in my mind, is that it focuses on aircraft from WW2. Yes, our interests often extend to other eras and other types of models but I think the calling card of this particular site will always be WW2 aircraft (literally, since the website name is WW2aircraft.net).
So I have no problem limiting the GB topics to WW2-based themes. That's what I'm into, personally. Yeah, I'll do the occasional jet or sci-fi build but my passion lies in WW2 aviation. That's why I came here. I don't mind repeating themes because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of subjects to choose from each theater of the war and there will always be an interesting aircraft for me to model. Based on my limited experience in the group builds here and browsing through the group builds of the past, it seems like the strongest participation is generated by WW2 themes and I believe that this will continue to be the case. Based on past history, I don't think that the non-WW2 subjects are popular here and incorporating them into the GB's will serve to limit participation, not increase it.
So I have no problem limiting the GB topics to WW2-based themes. That's what I'm into, personally. Yeah, I'll do the occasional jet or sci-fi build but my passion lies in WW2 aviation. That's why I came here. I don't mind repeating themes because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of subjects to choose from each theater of the war and there will always be an interesting aircraft for me to model. Based on my limited experience in the group builds here and browsing through the group builds of the past, it seems like the strongest participation is generated by WW2 themes and I believe that this will continue to be the case. Based on past history, I don't think that the non-WW2 subjects are popular here and incorporating them into the GB's will serve to limit participation, not increase it.
T Bolt
Colonel
I know there are other modeling sites out there, but I'm not involved with them and have no intention of doing so. If it wasn't for this place and the people here I would just be building my models on my own like I did before I found this place. I know its a WWII site and I do believe that we should do mostly WWII subjects, but I like to do other eras once in a while so I think we should do a GB (or split build) from other eras now and then.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Just for giggles, I spent the last 1 or 2 hours plotting GB participation rates from Day 1:
My conclusion is that we are not "dying" but rather that we ran into a spell of less popular subjects after GB 28. The original GBs were 1 to 17 and the Next Gen was 18 to present day.
In my view, the way to keep the GB's fresh and interesting is to poll more often - hence my suggestion to do this every two years or 8 GBs.
In the end, I can live with split builds but would stay away from splitting it the way it is currently being done. For example, the current suggestion would be to have this split in the 1st GB:
Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)
Now, I'm the only guy who voted for North of 60 and, if it stayed that way with no other votes then I see no point in splitting such a popular subject because one guy wants to do a particular, unpopular subject. I'm more in tune with maybe making the last 2 GB's in a cycle as split with subjects that have more or less equal interest.
Michael, I appreciate you doing these. It's generated great discussion and interest and hopefully we can carry that momentum forward.
My conclusion is that we are not "dying" but rather that we ran into a spell of less popular subjects after GB 28. The original GBs were 1 to 17 and the Next Gen was 18 to present day.
In my view, the way to keep the GB's fresh and interesting is to poll more often - hence my suggestion to do this every two years or 8 GBs.
In the end, I can live with split builds but would stay away from splitting it the way it is currently being done. For example, the current suggestion would be to have this split in the 1st GB:
Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)
Now, I'm the only guy who voted for North of 60 and, if it stayed that way with no other votes then I see no point in splitting such a popular subject because one guy wants to do a particular, unpopular subject. I'm more in tune with maybe making the last 2 GB's in a cycle as split with subjects that have more or less equal interest.
Michael, I appreciate you doing these. It's generated great discussion and interest and hopefully we can carry that momentum forward.
- Thread starter
- #68
parsifal
Colonel
we are mature enough to have a robust discussion and still remain friends and on the same basic page I think.
For now I will complete the poll as it is currently configured, Then I will present two or three derived scenarios to the judges and wotjek to finalise the GBs for the next 2-2.5 years.
For now I will complete the poll as it is currently configured, Then I will present two or three derived scenarios to the judges and wotjek to finalise the GBs for the next 2-2.5 years.
- Thread starter
- #69
parsifal
Colonel
These are the specifications my nomination list is working to
1) two year building program - A maximum of 8 slots
2) No lost nominations
With the latest nominations, and working to the specification of a two year build program ive had to do something unpopular and introduce triple choice split builds. These nominations can be deleted later if it is felt they should not be there. I am not prepared to do that. Every nomination will be counted in my poll. Its an advisory poll at this point.
The second and third nomination are arranged so that the most popular secondary nominations are mated to the least popular primary nominations, mostly to normalise the distribution and hopefully keep interest up in the later builds. My opinion is that if we can, no nominations should be ignored.
On that basis with the latest nomination list added to the mix, we achieve a nomination list something like the following:
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 27)
Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)
PTO (16) / Malta (2)(Total 18)
MTO (13) / Between the wars (3) / WWI (1) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) /Korean War (1) (Total 17)
BoB (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) /Greece+Crete (1) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 16)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (6) / Cold War (2) (Total 16)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
(9 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),
1) two year building program - A maximum of 8 slots
2) No lost nominations
With the latest nominations, and working to the specification of a two year build program ive had to do something unpopular and introduce triple choice split builds. These nominations can be deleted later if it is felt they should not be there. I am not prepared to do that. Every nomination will be counted in my poll. Its an advisory poll at this point.
The second and third nomination are arranged so that the most popular secondary nominations are mated to the least popular primary nominations, mostly to normalise the distribution and hopefully keep interest up in the later builds. My opinion is that if we can, no nominations should be ignored.
On that basis with the latest nomination list added to the mix, we achieve a nomination list something like the following:
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 27)
Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)
PTO (16) / Malta (2)(Total 18)
MTO (13) / Between the wars (3) / WWI (1) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) /Korean War (1) (Total 17)
BoB (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) /Greece+Crete (1) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 16)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (6) / Cold War (2) (Total 16)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
(9 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),
Last edited:
Crimea_River
Marshal
I withdraw my North of 60 nomination, since no-one else is interested anyway.
- Thread starter
- #71
parsifal
Colonel
I think I will do the same with my "Seaplanes" nomination. I will recalculate the nominations list accordingly
- Thread starter
- #72
parsifal
Colonel
The revised nominations sheet improves after those withdrawals, its a flatter "popularity" distribution "curve", which is what we need to be aiming for. It also eliminates split builds for the first two entries.
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(26) (Total 26)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) / Malta (2)(Total 18)
MTO (13) / Between the wars (3) / WWI (1) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) /Korean War (1) (Total 17)
BoB (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) /Greece+Crete (1) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 16)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (6) / Cold War (2) (Total 16)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),
Any other voluntary withdrawals for the nominations. I cant agree to it if there are others in the voting mix for that nomination.
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(26) (Total 26)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) / Malta (2)(Total 18)
MTO (13) / Between the wars (3) / WWI (1) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) /Korean War (1) (Total 17)
BoB (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) /Greece+Crete (1) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 16)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (6) / Cold War (2) (Total 16)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),
Any other voluntary withdrawals for the nominations. I cant agree to it if there are others in the voting mix for that nomination.
- Thread starter
- #73
parsifal
Colonel
We could also amalgamate the "Greece /Crete" build to the "MTO" build if the nominator will agree to it. If "First Gen jets" is married to "Korean War" and the nominators for those categories would agree, we would combine them and call it "Military aircraft 1946-54" or something like that. I am the sole nominator for both the "Between the wars" and "WWI" nominations and can at this point combine them both under the title of "Pre WWII military aircraft"
This would produce a nominations list something like this:
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 18)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5)/ (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) / (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) (Total 13)
Military A/C 1946-54 (7) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 13)
(10 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2), Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1*), WW2 Nth of 60 (1*), Spanish Civil War (*),
What are peples opinions about this suggestion?
This would produce a nominations list something like this:
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 18)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5)/ (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) / (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) (Total 13)
Military A/C 1946-54 (7) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 13)
(10 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2), Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1*), WW2 Nth of 60 (1*), Spanish Civil War (*),
What are peples opinions about this suggestion?
Last edited:
Crimea_River
Marshal
Malta fits in MTO as well so why separate it?
- Thread starter
- #75
parsifal
Colonel
Its already in the same GB
Without being too obtuse, I think we could ask Terry about the "A/C of the movies" nomination. If Terry will agree, we would have single subject builds for the first four builds
Without being too obtuse, I think we could ask Terry about the "A/C of the movies" nomination. If Terry will agree, we would have single subject builds for the first four builds
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #76
parsifal
Colonel
The Heavy hitters nomination should also probably drop the no fighters restriction......what about all those people who want to build Reich defences a/c? You guys that voted for that nomination should work that out amongst yourselves.......
My suggestion would be that the title be changed to "Heavy Hitters and the Defence of the Reich, Italy or Home islands"
My suggestion would be that the title be changed to "Heavy Hitters and the Defence of the Reich, Italy or Home islands"
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Looking good so far, and yes, withdraw my nomination for 'Aircraft of the Movies' - it was just a passing thought anyway, and it's passed, got on the bus, and gone to the pub.
Not sure about combining Reich Defence with heavy Hitters though - there's a very good chance of ending up with a lot more '109s and 190s, and not many bombers or ground attack types.
There have been, and no doubt will be, many opportunities to build rafts of Luftwaffe fighters, and although there's nothing wrong with this, it gets a bit repetitive, seeing pages of Bf109s or FW190s in very similar colour schemes.
Not sure about combining Reich Defence with heavy Hitters though - there's a very good chance of ending up with a lot more '109s and 190s, and not many bombers or ground attack types.
There have been, and no doubt will be, many opportunities to build rafts of Luftwaffe fighters, and although there's nothing wrong with this, it gets a bit repetitive, seeing pages of Bf109s or FW190s in very similar colour schemes.
- Thread starter
- #78
parsifal
Colonel
With Terry agreeing to withdraw the "A/C of the movies nomination" (which like the others now appears as a "tiebreaker " listing), the nominations list now looks as follows:
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) (Total 16)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) / (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) (Total 13)
Military A/C 1946-54 (7) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 13)
(10 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2), Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1*), WW2 Nth of 60 (1*), Spanish Civil War (*), A/C of the movies (*),
Another possible amalgamation would be to combine the "Cold War" with my nomination for Carrier A/c 1946-82, and simply call the build "Aircraft 1946-82". If we did that, the first half of the GBs would be single subject builds.
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) (Total 16)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) / (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) (Total 13)
Military A/C 1946-54 (7) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 13)
(10 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)
Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2), Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1*), WW2 Nth of 60 (1*), Spanish Civil War (*), A/C of the movies (*),
Another possible amalgamation would be to combine the "Cold War" with my nomination for Carrier A/c 1946-82, and simply call the build "Aircraft 1946-82". If we did that, the first half of the GBs would be single subject builds.
- Thread starter
- #79
parsifal
Colonel
The nomination sheet would then look like this:
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) (Total 16)
Military a/c 46-82 (Total 15)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) (Total 12)
BoB (12) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 11)
That's a 30 month program. Its distribution is not as neat as the preceding builds, but a lot of split builds are now gone, by means other than ignoring the minorities. Are people happier with that?
Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) (Total 16)
Military a/c 46-82 (Total 15)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) (Total 12)
BoB (12) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 11)
That's a 30 month program. Its distribution is not as neat as the preceding builds, but a lot of split builds are now gone, by means other than ignoring the minorities. Are people happier with that?
Bit late to the party but my votes.
1 Battle of Britain
2 PTO
3 Jets 1960's to 1970's
4 MTO
5 Eastern front
I dont think we should get to anal about these builds, hence my votes for rather broad categories.
It is all about a bit of fun and learning a few new things for me
1 Battle of Britain
2 PTO
3 Jets 1960's to 1970's
4 MTO
5 Eastern front
I dont think we should get to anal about these builds, hence my votes for rather broad categories.
It is all about a bit of fun and learning a few new things for me
Last edited:
