German commando attack on the US, Canada Alaska

Juha · Jul 19, 2008

dear Soren
Rohwer had went trough the original KM documents and gives the locations both with original KM code and also by normal degs N and E. He is also very respected expert of WWII sea warfare and everybody can check locations from Uboat.net, choose the U-boat, then choose sorties then the sortie that ended late Sept 43, one can see the daily locations of the boat and by strolling downward one can see the location of the sinking.

Everybody can check that if one has copy of Rohwer's book that would be better but Uboat.net also gives the same info.

So Soren, You are a bit sorry figure, even in this thread there are numerous examples on your misunderstandings, one automatic weather station in Canada tranformed to several in USA in your fertile mind etc.

So hopefully you'll get back reality soon

Juha

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

Soren said:
I'm not taking it personal at all Adler, seriously I could care less, I'm just telling you that Alaska aint that rough and that it sounds odd for you to say "They wouldn't achieve a single mission in Alaska" when I know what spec ops members have achieved and are required to achieve.

You see Soren. You are taking that too seriously. Yeah if they were to get there they could take over and terrorize some small town with 200 inhabitants, but the overall mission of causing terror to the United Stated would not be achieved in Alaska.

There are much better targets that are easier to get to and a lot more worth while in the continental United States. That is my point, that you seem not to get...

Soren said:
And so I brought forward the Sirius Patrol Team, which use dog sleds and roam across greenland's large stretches of ice (The guys from the US ober there are in the mild areas) which IS a harsher inviroment that Alaska with lower temperatures and much harsher weather in general.

Yes Jedi Master Soren!

Soren said:
Furthermore I don't see myself as important at all Adler, so your continious habbit accusing me of that is tiring to say the least. I don't accuse you of being an uptight bastard do I ?

You do not have to. I know how you feel. I dont let you get away with acting like a snob. I don't take it personal though...

Soren said:
Why come across harsh against me just because you disagree with what I say, why not just present a counter argument free of insults and the startingshot to a personal argument?

I already explained that to you Soren. In this thread, I have not been harsh. I have been trying to have a humorous. Why do you think I have been using the smilies. When I am pissed off, I do not use smilies.

Soren said:
Ok so you don't question my service with the military, fine by me, I appreciate your trust, but truthfully it really matters little to me as like I've said I know what I've done and I don't need to prove anything to anyone. All I can do is share what I know and then present my arguments.

Yeah but you would come across alot more believable if you would not just make claims...

Now finally for what you said Adler:

Soren said:
Now are you honestly not implying that in YOUR opinion I think of the German commandos as "Über soldiers". Come on Adler, that really wasn't necessary and I'm quite sure it wasn't meant to make me laugh either, correct ??

No I was just having fun with the fact that even though the Germans lost the war, they were the greatest thing since bread and butter in your eyes (you have to admit that 99.9% of your posts on this forum come across this way you see there is the smiley again!)

It actually was in jest, like I said before. Take it as you wish though. I do not need to explain myself to you. I have been doing so, for the sake of this thread however.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

Now to the members posting in this thread:

I wish to apologize for derailing this thread so badly. Everyonce in awhile I go through these phases with Soren.

I will try not to do it so much in the future.

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

So hopefully you'll get back reality soon

So funny coming from you mr. spin doctor!

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

pbfoot said:
I have to say this but Soren you don't have a clue about the Northern regions of N America have you ever been north of 60.

1st Perhaps not
2nd What do you base it on ? (Something I said, I would really like to know this!)
3rd But I'll ask you this: Ever been in Siberia m8 ?? Does Alaska often experience -50 degrees Celcius ?? Now THAT is harsh!
4th Have you ever been to Greenland ? I have, although not all over for months like the SPT, but I got a good taster of what to expect.

Now before the final question consider this: People live in all these places, Spec Ops often conduct training excercises in the mentioned areas and they achieve their objectives 90% of the time.

So finally what the heck is it that is so darn special about Alaska that makes it harder to survive in than in Greenland, the Northpole, Siberia, Norway, Sahara desert, rain forests around the world etc etc..

I am eagerly awaiting your expert knowledge on this subject!

I did a month TDY in Badafoss and another in Stavenger the climate is moderated by the Gulf Stream . I wasted to much luggage on Arctic gear as opposed to winter gear when I did the deployment to Badafoss

So how many fingers toes did you loose ? You barely survived right ??

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Now to the members posting in this thread:

I wish to apologize for derailing this thread so badly. Everyonce in awhile I go through these phases with Soren.

I will try not to do it so much in the future.

Yeah I'd also like to apologize very much to all on this forum for being such a hardcore Nazi sympathizer that Adler has to constantly keep me in check! Man if he would but leave me alone for 10 sec so I could convert you all! Damn it!

PS: The F4U-4 was made in Germany, be sure!!

pbfoot · Jul 19, 2008

A . Google Snag Alaska
B. Yes I've had Frostbite got it in Wainwright Alberta in 82 it was only minus 40c while on excercise . I was foolish
C. been to greenland several times it was easy to catch flips out of Goose Bay and it was something to do on days off
D .you have no idea about the Arctic in any shape or form as indicated by your posts

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

Btw, looked at Uboat.net and sure enough both U-302 (Typo in book apparently) 354 went straight into the Vilkitsky strait!

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

PS: The Kara sea contains more icepacks and freezes up earlier than the Lapta sea, and yet the German operated both Uboats and Warships in the Kara sea.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

Soren said:
Yeah I'd also like to apologize very much to all on this forum for being such a hardcore Nazi sympathizer that Adler has to constantly keep me in check! Man if he would but leave me alone for 10 sec so I could convert you all! Damn it!

PS: The F4U-4 was made in Germany, be sure!!

I should not take this personally, but that is a very serious accusation you just made!

I have never claimed you were a nazi sympathizer! You want to ****ing put words in my mouth?

Bring it on!

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

pbfoot said:
A . Google Snag Alaska

Thought so.

B. Yes I've had Frostbite got it in Wainwright Alberta in 82 it was only minus 40c while on excercise . I was foolish

How many fingers toes pbfoot ?

Btw, they were all dead besides you when your supervisors came to pick you guys up right ? Makes one wonder what the purpose of those excercises are right ?

C. been to greenland several times it was easy to catch flips out of Goose Bay and it was something to do on days off

Again just as I thought, come back when you've actually been inside of Greenland.

D .you have no idea about the Arctic in any shape or form as indicated by your posts

I know how it is, you just have your ideas, thats the difference.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

Soren said:
Does Alaska often experience -50 degrees Celcius ?? Now THAT is harsh!

Um actually yes.

From Fairbanks on up temps regularly reach -52 to -60C, with an average temp of -50C. You have to keep a engine heater plugged in at all tims so your car will start in the morning. When you go to a grocery store, you dont turn your car off.

Below Fairbanks, Alaska regularly gets temps in the extreme spectrum of both sides. In the summer it can reach 35 C in the summer and -50C in the winter.

I had a friend in Anchorage (born and raised, live his whole life in Alaska) who went up to Barrow (very top of Alaska) to work for 6 months. He quit after 3 weeks because he could hack it.

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I should not take this personally, but that is a very serious accusation you just made!

I have never claimed you were a nazi sympathizer! You want to ****ing put words in my mouth?

Bring it on!

What accusation ? Also didn't you notice the smiley ??

You see Adler, we're only human and my above post was very clearly a sarcastic joke, something which you can't say about your Über soldier 99.9% German appraisal remark cause you see the difference is I meant nothing of what I said in the post you just responded to while you did in the one I responded to.

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Um actually yes.

From Fairbanks on up temps regularly reach -52 to -60C, with an average temp of -50C. You have to keep a engine heater plugged in at all tims so your car will start in the morning. When you go to a grocery store, you dont turn your car off.

Below Fairbanks, Alaska regularly gets temps in the extreme spectrum of both sides. In the summer it can reach 35 C in the summer and -50C in the winter.

I had a friend in Anchorage (born and raised, live his whole life in Alaska) who went up to Barrow (very top of Alaska) to work for 6 months. He quit after 3 weeks because he could hack it.

In the summer Anchorage usually doesn't experience anywhere near -50 degrees celcius. I experienced -60 in Siberia, and at that temperature I would agree that any form of mission would be problematic. Amazingly people still manage to live there though. But forget about sleeping in a tent..

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

Soren said:
In the summer Anchorage usually doesn't experience anywhere near -50 degrees celcius. I experienced -60 in Siberia, and at that temperature I would agree that any form of mission would be problematic. Amazingly people still manage to live there though. But forget about sleeping in a tent..

I said above Fairbanks it does. Go back and read the post again, instead of picking out what you want to hear. It does not work that way.

Freebird · Jul 19, 2008

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Why would they get on an allied cargo ship? Why cant they get on a ship from Argentina or how about this...

Perhaps he meant a country "allied to Germany"?

IMO the best method to get German Commandos to N. America is to land them on the east coast of Mexico, where any nosy port inspector could easily be bribed. From Mexico they could even DRIVE right into the US from Texas, New Mexico or Arizona

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
If you can get through it...

In the end an U-Boot is still the worst idea.

That's my opinion too.

And Alaska would still be pointless.

A. There are no targets to cause terror with.

B. The population is so small in an area larger than most of Europe. The entire population of Alaska in 1942 was only 72,500 people in such a larger area. Many of the people lived in remote areas and would never even know the Germans had landed in Alaska and most of the US population would never ever find out either because communications sucked in Alaska back then.

C. There are much better targets that are easier to get to on the main US continent.

Good points!

pbfoot said:
I believe that Alaska was run by the military or it was a military zone

Much depends on the time. If it's fall 1941, the place is wide open.

After the Japanese occupation of Attu Kiska in 1942 {the diversion for Midway!} then all of Alaska is on high alert.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Now to the members posting in this thread:

I wish to apologize for derailing this thread so badly. Everyonce in awhile I go through these phases with Soren.

I will try not to do it so much in the future.

No worrys, I think we will get back on track eventually.... 8)

Soren said:
Remember it would be done at the same time as the attacks in the US Canada to achieve as big a terrorfying effect as possible, letting the US public know that you can strike at them everywhere any time if you wish. Defeating your enemy phsycologically has its benefits.

The only possible reason that might work for Alaska would be to pose as Japanese scouts, to concern the Allies about that route. The US will not be that concerned about German attacks in Alaska, because they know Germany could never hold or supply Alaska.

However:

1.) It would be far less difficult for the Japanese to do this, rather than bring attackers 8,000 or 10,000 miles or whatever.

2.) If you went to the effort to rig a fishing/whaling ship in Tiajuana, Mexico or somewhere like that to transport your commandos up the west coast, why go all the way up to Alaska? Why not land them in Puget Sound {Seattle} or San Fransisco bay and wreak havoc there?

3.) Another complication is that the population in Alaska was so small and isolated that the US government could probably cover up the whole attack prevent any publicity. If you were to launch Mortar attacks on refineries, ports, railway bridges etc in Seattle, Los Angeles, San Fransisco etc there would be too many witnessess to cover the story up.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
There are much better targets that are easier to get to and a lot more worth while in the continental United States. That is my point, that you seem not to get...

After we finish with Alaska I think we might come back to that...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

Soren said:
What accusation ? Also didn't you notice the smiley ??

You see Adler, we're only human and my above post was very clearly a sarcastic joke, something which you can't say about your Über soldier 99.9% German appraisal remark cause you see the difference is I meant nothing of what I said in the post you just responded to while you did in the one I responded to.

Bullshit...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 19, 2008

freebird said:
IMO the best method to get German Commandos to N. America is to land them on the east coast of Mexico, where any nosy port inspector could easily be bribed. From Mexico they could even DRIVE right into the US from Texas, New Mexico or Arizona

Agreed and there are much better targets in those areas. That is why I don't understand this facination with Alaska...

Soren · Jul 19, 2008

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Bullshit...

Go back and read the post again, instead of picking out what you want to hear. It does not work that way.

Ahem!

And no, I never believed you believed I was a Nazi, but just as I thought you can't take a joke yourself yet you are happy dealing them out on others.

Anyway I'd like to file a complaint for the 3 points infraction I just recieved by you Adler as it is based on wrong assumptions.

Freebird · Jul 19, 2008

Soren said:
In the summer Anchorage usually doesn't experience anywhere near -50 degrees celcius.

Thats the problem Soren, is that if you attack in Dec 1941 the temps will be killer.

If you are thinking of doing this in Summer 1942 there will not really be much effect, as remember that the Japanese have already occupied the outer Alaskan islands, so the area is already on high alert.

Interesting though to compare the panic on the west coast after Pearl Harbour and the Japanese subs shelling Vancouver Island Santa Barbara. {Huge panic} and the reaction to the Japanese invading Alaskan Islands {not nearly the same reaction}

German commando attack on the US, Canada Alaska

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