German Landships

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by HealzDevo, Nov 21, 2004.

  1. HealzDevo

    HealzDevo Active Member

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    I was wondering whether anyone knew anything or had any pictures of the German Supertanks under development. The only one I know about is the Maus. I know all about the aircraft, but not the tanks and ground equipment that the Germans were planning on deploying in 1946. I was wondering whether anyone knew anything about this.

    See the whole idea of mine is for Civilisation III Conquests to do an alternative history scenario where a mole in the British American high command has betrayed D-Day to the Germans and as a result thousands of Allied Soldiers died. Then the German High Command swings into action and really begins invasion plans pulling some of the troops from shattered Normandy to help. Afrika has already fallen as a result of a brillant strategy by Rommel.

    I know about the aircraft, but have been unable to find pictures or models of 1946 projected German ground and naval prototypes. I was wondering whether anyone could oblige with what they have in their collection for this one. Or maybe some useful web-links as I have got stuck searching.

    Thank-you in advance.
     
  2. kiwimac

    kiwimac Active Member

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  3. HealzDevo

    HealzDevo Active Member

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    I know about the Maus but I was asking whether anyone knew of any others. Thanks for the photos though.
     
  4. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    hat a 128mm with a 75mm mounted co-axel??
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Now that is a stupid weapon! Can you say bomb bait? Where could it actually travel? Would you have to have a crew pour cement roads in front of it?

    The German wonder tanks were stupid weapons. The were so limited in where they could go and had such limited range they were only really useful for defense. You could build a hell of a lot of bunkers for the cost of one of those tanks!

    =S=

    Lunatic
     
  6. redcoat

    redcoat Active Member

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    While the German aircraft designers seemed to have come up with some amazing ideas for the next generation of jet aircraft towards the end of the war( even if some of them weren't very practical) German tank designers seemed to have 'lost the plot'
    While the Maus seems a totally inpractical tank that would have been impressive but useless on the battlefield. The P1000 or the 'Ratte' was a totally insane idea, a tank over 4 times the size of the Maus :shock:
    Here's a light-hearted description of the Ratte
    http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1636


    ps The only major sensible improvement planned for German tanks in 46 was the Panther II. In which the frontal armour of the Panther was to be increased from 60mm to 100mm, and the side armour from 30mm to 60mm. also the turret was to be redesigned to fit a 88mm/71 gun .
    What the effect of all this extra weight on the already unreliable Panther is anybodies guess :rolleyes:
     
  7. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    :shock: Is that your little game? :lol:
     
  8. redcoat

    redcoat Active Member

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    Hmmm, :oops:
    I better paste it then

    The P. 1000 "Ratte" Type: The Biggest Tank that Never Was




    Specific Features: Before I get into the specific features of the "Ratte" let us reminisce briefly about the largest tank ever completed; The Maus. I covered it in my first article on German super weapons and it's one of the more well known of Germany's uber tanks. The Maus weighed in at 188 tons (the M1A1 tank currently used by the United States weighs only 67 tons), had a massive 128mm main gun, and had armor that was a quarter of a meter thick in places. The Maus was built, it was real, it may have even seen combat although details are sketchy and this is probably unlikely. The Maus was also a monumental waste of resources and was ultimately impractical.

    The Ratte was the next in line to wear the crown of world's biggest tank, and it made the Maus look like its namesake. The Ratte was to be a nightmare machine and its scale still boggles the mind. It would have been 35 meters long, almost four times as wide as the Maus, and 11 meters high. Armor would have been similar or possibly slightly thicker than that seen on the Maus, but of course covering much more surface area. The tank would have been propelled along on a total of six 1.2 meter wide tread assemblies, three on each side of the tank. This means that the treads on one side would have been only slightly narrower than the entirety of a Maus. No less than eight Daimler E-boat engines would have provided the tank's requisite 16,000 horsepower and the turret would have literally been a Graf Spee class battleship turret with only two instead of three gun positions.

    If your pants aren't feeling uncomfortably tight yet, just wait until you hear about the armament. The turret would have mounted a pair of 280mm long barreled ship cannons, each gun weighing in at almost 50 tons and firing shells that weighed over 300 kg a piece and were capable of reaching out and touching someone 42 kilometers away. Practically these weapons w was built, it was real, it may have even seen combat although details are sketchy and this is probably unlikely. The Maus was also a monumental waste of resources and was ultimately impractical.

    The Ratte was the next in line to wear the crown of world's biggest tank, and it made the Maus look like its namesake. The Ratte was to be a nightmare machine and its scale still boggles the mind. It would have been 35 meters long, almost four times as wide as the Maus, and 11 meters high. Armor would have been similar or possibly slightly thicker than that seen on the Maus, but of course covering much more surface area. The tank would have been propelled along on a total of six 1.2 meter wide tread assemblies, three on each side of the tank. This means that the treads on one side would have been only slightly narrower than the entirety of a Maus. No less than eight Daimler E-boat engines would have provided the tank's requisite 16,000 horsepower and the turret would have literally been a Graf Spee class battleship turret with only two instead of three gun positions.

    If your pants aren't feeling uncomfortably tight yet, just wait until you hear about the armament. The turret would have mounted a pair of 280mm long barreled ship cannons, each gun weighing in at almost 50 tons and firing shells that weighed over 300 kg a piece and were capable of reaching out and touching someone 42 kilometers away. Practically these weapons w was built, it was real, it may have even seen combat although details are sketchy and this is probably unlikely. The Maus was also a monumental waste of resources and was ultimately impractical.


    The Ratte would have been able to drive over trucks, houses, and even the mighty Maus tank with ease. Its guns would have leveled buildings, blasted craters ten meters across in the earth, or sunk an unfortunate naval cruiser loitering a little too close to shore. The term P.1000 was a reference to the estimated thousand ton weight of the Ratte, but odds are it would have been much closer to 2000 tons.

    History: Very little remains of the history of the Ratte, but it is known that its development began at Krupp in the summer of 1942. Concept work and illustrations were completed by December of 1942 but it is unknown how much beyond this stage development of the Ratte progressed. It can be assumed that not much was finished because the P. 1000 program would have left a pretty easy to identify prototype behind. The Ratte program was never officially cancelled despite the immense waste of resources it would have been if a prototype had ever been completed.. Finally, instead of a turret machinegun the P.1000 was intended to mount either a dual or quad 20mm anti-aircraft gun on top of the 380 ton turret. .
     
  9. HealzDevo

    HealzDevo Active Member

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    Wow, talk about a tank and a half!!! No wonder they call them landships of WW2!!! That armament sounds like it would be more at home on a Battleship then on a Tank!!! Thank-you you have struck solid gold.
     
  10. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

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    I knew about it.

    All the German super-heavies and, in fact, all German AFVs are on http://www.achtungpanzer.com/profiles.htm.

    It was a silly idea. The Maus was too, no bridge could have supported it. Invincible to tanks though, those pot holes on the one in Kubinka are from test firing at all ranges with a 122mm cannon. The E-100 was stupid too, the British captured its chassis.

    The Panther Ausf A was unreliable. And the Panther II wasn't just going to have increased armour. The new 'Schmal' turret which was going to be on the Panther II was a complete redesign, and not just to accomodate the 88mm cannon that had been proposed. In fact, the turret was designed to accomodate the KwK42/1 75mm cannon. The 88mm with stabiliser sight was to come later. It had range-finder equipment, increased armour on top (25mm from 16mm). Steel rimmed 'silent-bloc' wheels were going to be standard. Plus many other minor changes that made combat and conversion much easier, and a possible task by the troops in the field.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I can imagine that the Ratte might come in handy to defend structures like the V3 they were planned to build.

    I can imagine they come up with 5 tanks and suddenly there is a beast of a thing in front of you :) you better give up then
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Or call in the air-force. One or two good AP bomb hits and the thing is finished.
     
  13. mosquitoman

    mosquitoman Active Member

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    Just drop a Tallboy on top of it, worked for the Tirpitz
     
  14. Kongo Otto

    Kongo Otto Member

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    All of those Superheavy Tanks the Germans developed at the End of WW2 are totally useless.
    Too heavy, too slow, not manouverable enough, too heavy for all Bridges at this Time, also too big and too heavy for fast railway movements.
    What a waste of time and resorces.
    How many Panzer IV H could been built for just the steel of one Maus Tank?
    Even the King Tiger had to use different tracks when it was transported
    with railway cars.

    "Movement and speed are weapons" Guderian
     
  15. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

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    You'll find a lot of German tanks required different tracks for transport.
     
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