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That's the problem when you have the most brilliant men in the world working for an evil organisation then that makes them evil too?Somewhere I have a magazine article about one of the top Luftwaffe NF pilots, who flew BF-110G. One day he attacked a bomber formation in daylight and when he was pursued by fighters managed to whip around and shoot down two of them.
Aside from that I recall reading where there were cases in which Ju-87 went up to attack 8th AF bomber formations.
You are probably right It would probably be Hitler misusing a enormous asset in the night war against daybombers or vainglorious Luftwaffe pilots trying to increase their killsI thought our heavy weighters would jump this an an P-47 would jump a night fighter caught out after sun rise. Then again, it's not the first time I've been wrong.
As placing a nightfighter close to the bomber formations, and thereby the escort, is already putting a high valuer asset as risk, lurking around and not approaching the bombers is not going to earn you anything, even by the German high command. Getting close and personal is the best thing to make of a bad situation. The risk of gettin condenmned is infinitesmal compered to the risk of being dead. Still you may be praised as dead, though, sacrifice and all that BS.
While the Bf 110 may have sprung the occasional surprize (not really being at an disadvantage in a head on confrontation with a se fighter), a Ju 88 C certainly have no business tangling with escort fighters in 44. Nor a Ju 88 R or G either. From memory the use of night fighters was primarily in the spring and summer of 44, not many G's around then anyway. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong
On a cloudy day ground rader would probably be of far more use than the rader on a night fighter. The night fighters, I think, needed the ground rader to get them close anyway, though being in the bomber stream they'd be able to pick their individual targets on their own. But daylight raids were not done in streams.
Shräge music would, I surmise, be of limited value. The night fighter was stalking the bombers unseen, hoping to set up a shot from the blind angle below and behind. In daylight the more potent forward armament would be far more devastating, and easier to aim. I'm actually not sure if any Ju-88c's got shräge musik.
As far as i know, twin engined day fighters were provided with rockets and big cannons before the crisis in early 44. When there was no longer a safe zone from escorts, they suffered as well, rader antennas or not. I never heard of the night fighters being modified with rockets. I'm under the impression that it was truly desperate improvization, with no time for modifications or training for the new operational environment. As such a really bad desicion. I think nobody will disagree on that particular point.
I'm sure the destruction of airframes hurt the nacht jagd. however, as the main problem of die luftwaffe in the last year of the war was fuel and experienced pilots, the loss of highly specialized night fighter pilots was probably far more telling. As already indicated, the tactics night and day differed immensely. My take is that in the last year, there was (relatively speaking) a surplus of new airframes. Fueling them, crewing them with experienced pilots, and even getting them to the operational units, posed greater problems. I don't really know about servicing them, but expect that was becoming increasingly difficult too.
Us bombers at night?yes SM was used against US bombers at night. have the mission reports via 15th AF during 1945. the German NF's were from Ju 88G-6 equipped NJG 100.
Werent the german busy
Us bombers at night?
B-17s flying night missions in SWPA suffered greatly from Japanese night fighters. Luckily, the Japanese didn't have very many of them.I think that Jazz Music attacks would have been suicidal against B-17's and B-24's even at NIGHT.
It makes perfect sense to get some experience of real night time operations, its hard to re create the situation in peacetime.Both the 8th and 15th air force had limited night bombing operations. I know next to nothing on the 15th Air Force stuff so Erich would have to fill in.
The 8th Air Force tried to get night bombing going in 1943, initially trying to covert the 93rd and 44th Bomb Groups (B-24s), but they got taken away in June to serve in the Mediterranean and then the Polesti raid. They tried again with B-17s, which resulted in the 422nd Bomb Squadron flying several raids with Bomber Command in September and October 1943 but that got canned after a bit. Lastly from December 1944 to March 1945 the "492nd Bomb Group" (not the original 492nd which was disbanded, but a carpetbagger unit that took over its name) was flying night bombing missions, normally attached to 100 Group RAF Bomber Command to fatten up the diversion raids. Doolittle wanted the 8th to be able to bomb at night since RAF Bomber Command was doing day and night bombing at the time, which is an interseting reason but that is what the 8th AF headquarters summaries say.
The 492nd did suffer some losses, perhaps one or two to SM on night fighters.
Group | 28-Oct-44 | 30-Oct-44 | 2-Nov-44 | 13-Nov-44 | 25-Nov-44 | 30-Nov-44 | 7-Dec-44 | 8-Dec-44 | Total |
2nd | 2 | 0 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 24 |
97th | 2 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 22 |
98th | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 11 |
99th | 2 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 25 |
301st | 2 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 24 |
376th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 9 |
449th | 0 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 14 |
450th | 0 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 12 |
451st | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
454th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 8 |
455th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
456th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 8 |
459th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
460th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
461st | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
463rd | 1 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 22 |
464th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
465th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 5 |
483rd | 2 | 0 | 3 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 26 |
484th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 5 |
485th | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 4 |
Total | 11 | 6 | 10 | 28 | 63 | 40 | 49 | 51 | 258 |
Cn | Location | Targets | 28-Oct-44 | 30-Oct-44 | 2-Nov-44 | 13-Nov-44 | 25-Nov-44 | 30-Nov-44 | 7-Dec-44 | 8-Dec-44 | Total |
Ge | Blechhammer/S | O/Synth. | 0 | 0 | 0 | 15 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 15 |
Au | Erlasback | City | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Gleisdorf | T/O | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
Ge | Glewitz | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Gmunden | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Graz/Main | M/Y | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 6 |
Au | Haiming | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Innsbruck/Main | M/Y | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 5 | 4 | 0 | 18 |
Po | Karvina | T/O | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Klagenfurt | City&M/Y | 0 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 6 | 1 | 7 | 7 | 25 |
Au | Lienz | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 |
Au | Linz/Hermann Goering | O/Benzol | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 20 | 18 | 0 | 0 | 38 |
Au | Mittersill | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
Ge | Munich | M/Y | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
Ge | Munich/West | M/Y | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 19 |
Cz | Ruzomberok | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Ge | Salzburg/Main | M/Y | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 |
Ge | Salzburg/West | M/Y | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 0 | 6 |
Au | Spittal | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
Au | St. Polten | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
It | Trieste | O/Store | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
Hu | Vac | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Vienna/Moosbierbaum | O/Benzol | 0 | 0 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 11 |
Au | Villach | M/Y | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 5 | 11 |
Au | Volkermarkt | T/O | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
Au | Wolfberg | RR/Junc | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
Au | Ybbs | City | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
Cn | Location | Total | 9 | 3 | 7 | 19 | 45 | 30 | 30 | 27 | 170 |
With the liberation of France the Carpetbagger operations wound down, leaving the 492nd group semi employed. One squadron was later sent to Italy. According to Roger Freeman only the 856th stayed as Carpetbagger, though the 858th did some operations. Night bombing and signals investigation were added to the list of duties.
The 8th did a small number of night raids 1943/early 1944 partly as GH and Oboe trials. According to Richard Davis night raids resumed on 24 December 1944 against coastal targets in France, 34.8 tons on December using H2X, 16.7 tons using H2X in January. It was not until 20 February 1945 a target in Germany was attacked, all up 57.5 tons by GH, 239 by H2X in February 1945, 269 tons H2X in March, 116.6 tons H2X in April. A total of 254 sorties credited with attacking targets in Germany, 2 aircraft MIA, most raids on Marshalling Yards but they had an unusually high percentage of incendiaries, 420.5 tons HE to 204.1 tons incendiary, for the war the 8th dropped about 9 tons HE to 1 Incendiary.
Night leaflet operations began on 7 October 1943, 2,289 successful sorties, 5 aircraft MIA. Carpetbagger on 6 January 1944, 2,074 successful sorties, 30 aircraft MIA.
Hiif available, the 13 destroyed by intruders in air or in the ground?
The 492nd BG was 'transferred' in the context that i a.) ceased operating under 8th AF/2AD control, b.) crews were transferred en masse to 801st BS (P), as well as other 2AD Bomb squadrons as replacements. The 492nd was disbanded in August 1944.Both the 8th and 15th air force had limited night bombing operations. I know next to nothing on the 15th Air Force stuff so Erich would have to fill in.
The 8th Air Force tried to get night bombing going in 1943, initially trying to covert the 93rd and 44th Bomb Groups (B-24s), but they got taken away in June to serve in the Mediterranean and then the Polesti raid. They tried again with B-17s, which resulted in the 422nd Bomb Squadron flying several raids with Bomber Command in September and October 1943 but that got canned after a bit. Lastly from December 1944 to March 1945 the "492nd Bomb Group" (not the original 492nd which was disbanded, but a carpetbagger unit that took over its name) was flying night bombing missions, normally attached to 100 Group RAF Bomber Command to fatten up the diversion raids. Doolittle wanted the 8th to be able to bomb at night since RAF Bomber Command was doing day and night bombing at the time, which is an interseting reason but that is what the 8th AF headquarters summaries say.
The 492nd did suffer some losses, perhaps one or two to SM on night fighters.
RAF Lancasters (and Halifaxs?) were fitted with the FN64 ventral turret. But they were generally left un-manned or removed as they were deemed to be not worth the effort, as the view below was quite poor. Eventually, the H2S radar took over the ventral turret location, as it was a better use of the space. An approaching night fighter was next to impossible to see against the dark ground.I think that Jazz Music attacks would have been suicidal against B-17's and B-24's even at NIGHT.
Note that none of the RAf night bombers had so much as a window to look out the bottom of the airplane.
Wouldnt a searchlight work better, that would blind the varmints too?They should have had flares shooting in front of flight with a declination ( considering speed wind etc.) That let it go off on lower but juusstt in front low down. It will light up those peskey jazz guys just fine.