The Barracuda got sorted eventually, but was awful in its first few incarnationas. Interesting point that after the Swordfish, not only its first generation replacement, the Albacore, was incapable of fully replacing it, but the 2nd generation replacement, the Barraccuda, was in exactly the same predicament. Only Fairey's 3rd attempt, the Spearfish, was deemed suitable to take over completely but then the war was over and the money dried up, only the 4th go, the Gannet, finally put a new torpedo bomber in Royal Navy service
That Battle's biggest problem was the tactics employed, but with Griffon Power, and sized down a little to match the Fulmar, its crews could have stood a much better chance.
Fairefy Firefly - Powered by Griffon
Don't leave the Fairey Firefly off the list guys - I was reading your various postings and I think we are forgetting that the firefly Did have a Griffon too
The Barracuda got sorted eventually, but was awful in its first few incarnationas. Interesting point that after the Swordfish, not only its first generation replacement, the Albacore, was incapable of fully replacing it, but the 2nd generation replacement, the Barraccuda, was in exactly the same predicament. Only Fairey's 3rd attempt, the Spearfish, was deemed suitable to take over completely but then the war was over and the money dried up, only the 4th go, the Gannet, finally put a new torpedo bomber in Royal Navy service
That Battle's biggest problem was the tactics employed, but with Griffon Power, and sized down a little to match the Fulmar, its crews could have stood a much better chance.
Battle with P 24 Engine
Another Battle Could-Have-Been was the P24 Exp
The following is taken from Fairey Monarch engine production
With the P24 design - there was no "coupling" of its two component halves - They were two entirely separate engines - one of which drove its propeller through the hollow driveshaft of the other. Other than that there was absolutely no mechanical linkage between the two "halves" at all – So very little to go wrong.
The P24 Monarch was a very advanced engine if the surviving details are true...
Compressed Glycol /Water Cooling - As first used in Rolls Royce production engines (Merlin XII) from the end of 1940. RPM of 3,000 (same as wartime Merlins) 2 Stage, 4 Speed supercharger (Rolls Royce only ever managed a 2 speed Supercharger on the Merlin and only managed a 3-speed supercharger on post-war Griffons).
With a 2-stage, 4 speed supercharger you would expect the Monarch to have had a very impressive performance at height.
There were two designs - The 16 Cylinder H-16 "Prince" of 1.540 hp and the 24 cylinder P-24 "Monarch" of 2,240hp (perhaps more).
The H-16 had only a two-speed single stage supercharger.
The H-16 could well have boosted a Battle Bomber to close to 300 mph - who knows with a Monarch - 350 mph +???
The Fulmar and Barracuda could have had similar boosts in performance – along with "Twin-engine" reliability.
Both the H-16 and P-24 used essentially the same cylinders as the earlier P12 Prince - Which had first flown in 1934, and it used poppet-valves, and so would have had none of the problems Bristol + Napier had with sleeve-Valves, so it is by no means unreasonable to think that with a bit of government backing the H-16 and P-24 could have been in production as early as 1938, and certainly by 1940. As it was CR Fairey said to have spent at least 1 million pounds (at today's prices) out of his own pocket on the project.
The information on the Fairey family of engines is somewhat fragmentary...
The Prince 1 and II were just normal liquid-cooled "V" engines - very close in performance to the very late R-Royce Kestrel and the Peregrine.
The Prince H-16 was essentially two lots of 8 cylinders from Prince 2 engines each rearranged into a "U" shape - one on top of the other to form a "H" (but not a true "H" engine - two separate halves) - This is the only one we have firm data for weight on ... 2,180 Lb - a bit heavier than the weight of a Griffon (1,980 lb)- in it's prototype form it was not as powerful as a Griffon - giving only 1,600 hp - but this is not far off the 1,720 hp of the very early Griffons (although they were later developed to 2,500 hp). Because of it's layout the Prince H-16 would have had a bigger frontal area - leading to a somewhat "blunt" nose on any aircraft it was fitted to - unless a particularly large spinner or extension shaft was used (both these methods would add weight). -
The Monarch prototype was rated at 2,400 hp - but it was considered capable of development to 3,000 hp - no figures survive for its weight. The extra eight cylinders would have made the engine longer - but the frontal area would have been the same as the Prince H-16. I think it's fair to approximate this engine to a Bristol Centaurus in terms of weight.
I think most aircraft designers would have used the more powerful Monarch engine if given the choice - But there might have been some designs (the Fairey Fulmar and Barracuda spring to mind) where the Prince H-16 would have been a handy stop-gap to avoid major redesign for the extra weight of the Monarch.
As a general rule I think it's fair to say any aircraft with a late model Hercules or a Griffon engine could probably have used the Prince H-16 instead.
Similarly any aircraft designed with the RR Vulture or Centaurus could have taken a Monarch without too much redesign.
Freebird - Hi !
GOOD question !
I know that Fireflys were very successful against Japanese Oil Refineries - and it did have fully retractable Youngman flaps which were also fitted to the 'Cuda (although not fully recessed in that case).
You can read more here if you wish - [Click Here] Fairey Firefly aircraft profile. Aircraft Database of the Fleet Air Arm Archive 1939-1945
To be honest, I find the reports on Naval attack methods seem to blur the boundary between 'dive bombing' and 'attack'
It seems that as the war ground on, even planes like the Helldiver was used to fire rockets, strafe and skip-bomb more than actual dive bombing specifically, from what I can make out.
Apache A36 - Land Based Dive Bomber ?
The Apache (later aka the 'Mustang') was I believe originally designed to be able to dive-bomb - it certainly had Dive Brakes and Bomb Shackles
That was operated by the US Air Corp - and the rest is history of course !!
There is even a whole book about it ! - look here
A-36; North American A-36; Dive Bombers the Apache;
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