Greatest Fighter Pilot in World War II..... UPDATED

[BALU]

not that s**t movie of course.

Hey theres nothing wrong with that film...may not be terribly accurate but its a great flick.

The film is good and "wellreseived" in Russia. But it gives you a kind of wrong impression about russians (and soviets) - I can not say about germans. Russians do not love "heroic" people. A classik russian hero is an unpretentious person, without any visible self advertisment.

The block troops NEVER used in a manner showed in this moovie. Usually they were staying about kilometres from the front line, catchig deserters.

Troops NEVER were transported in locked carriages. It is idiotic. How can you escape from bombers from locked carriage?

 

[BALU]

Regarding Kozhedub's skirmish with P-51s.

Here is gun camera with two downed P-51s. The book I took it from tells that one of mustang pilots bailed out and later said that they mistook La-7 for "FW-190 with red nose" and opened fire from the long distance.

Zeiss optic in La-7?

 

[BALU]

I dont know what happened to this poll, but the # of votes for Kozhedub CANNOT be that favorable over Hartmann, as much as I would like them to be.....

900 votes + is just wayyyyyyy off..... Someone spamming????

All Russia was here

 

[Nonskimmer]

 

[cheddar cheese]

Either that or Kozhedub himself

 

[CharlesBronson]

Ace at works.

Hartmann 300th.


The following is an extract of the radio comunication betwenn Erich Hartmann, his wingman, and the groun control the day he achieved his 300th kill.

Russia -24th August 1944

Erich Hartmann, yet the most succesful pilot of the history scored his 290th victory the day before. The whole squadron is waiting for the historical moment - the 300. kill of Erich Hartmann, the first pilot to achieve this figure.

Just after lunch Oberleutnant Hartmann flew his first mission of the day. The squadron members are waiting in front of the radio.

13.07: Hartmann is reporting for the first time on the radio

13.15: Hartmann has contact with the enemy and is instantly scoring his first kill of the day

13.18: Abschuß ! (victory!). He orders his wingman to move to the opposite side.

13.19: Look out for enemies from above ! Attention ! Abschuß!

13.25: Abschuß !

13.27: Abschuß ! Reprimands his wingman to fly better. Watch above !

Silence

13.40: Abschuß ! Burns near the street. Another pilot: Bombers over O.

13.44: Do you have contact ? Another formation

13.45: Airacobras. Watch above !

13.48: Watch above !

13.57: Land, I will rock my wings six times.

Nearly two hours later, Hartmann is preparing for another mission.

15.44: Question to ground control: Do you have a bogie ? No ? Why are we then airborne ?

15.50: Ground control: Enemies over Sandowiez.

15.51: Watch out ! Airacobras !

16.00: Abschuß !

16.03: Abschuß !

16.06: Watch the rear and above ! Abschuß !

16.10: Abschuß ! (Airacobra/300.)

16.19: Ordering to attack an Pe 2 formation

16.20: Abschuß !

16.37: Hartmann is landing

His victories on that day included 3 Pe-2, 2 yak fighters and 1 Airacobra

As ever in the case of such occasions he was handed flowers and champagne to celebrate the event. Only that the flowers were picked from the fields nearby and the champagne was warm."Bimmel" Mertens, his mechanic was the first to congratulate him, but soon the whole group followed and the next morning the was far from being in a "ready" condition. But it did not matter as the news came through that he had been awarded the Diamonds.

 

[reddragon]

I'm impressed with Erich Hartmann. His first mission was October 14, 1942 and his last one was May 8, 1945 so he only had two years, seven months and according to him, around 1,456 missions, to achieve 352 victories.

 

[reddragon]

Lesofprimus, I like your signature.

 

[Erich]

BALU, sorry bud but your story is pure crap. All snipers had powerful scopes. König or whatever Soviet propaganda you want to beleive about Zaitslev's story is pure rubbish. No German sniper was allowed to mark any of his personal effects since this could possibly lead to the units ID.

Again I repeat there was no König and NO snipers were sent to Stalingrad above sergeant because there just wern't any on the front fighting as front line soldiers. The W-SS as I mentioned did not start up their own sniper schools until after the Stalingrad fiasco.

There are no German records accounting for the listing of a major of König or whomever of a sniper school during or ater the Stalingrad battles......

sorry this is off topic

 

[john]

Hi,
I´m new, so first a say hallo to everyone.
I just read your posts.
How can you say that Ivan Kozhedub is the greatest pilot?
Just because he´s an alli?
Is it hard to say, yes, the germans had the better pilots?
Look at the stats. The best 100 german-pilots(lets say achsen-pilots, cause their where also austrian for example)
shot down ca. 14000 airplanes!!!

There is no way out to say Hartmann was the best pilot.
The best skills maybe had Marseille. I read some books about fighter aces and all books say the same. Doesn´t if its an german or an american author. Marseille shot and flough like a devil. If he hadn´t died maybe he would count more kills than hartmann.
And he was fighting in the West, so some can not say "they just fought in the east. the russians were bad fighters etc..."



Sorry but I often ralise that a lot of people just see the allies and think the germans were bad fighters just because they were germans!
The Germans lost the war thats fact
but if your are objective you have to say. They got the best army. this includes soldiers, weapons and of course good genreal staffs.
The hole allied nations did not have as good technic as the germans at the beginning of the world war. And even at the end the germans had weapons which were still the best in their class. they just didn´t have the opportunity to build them.
This is just for those who are so to say "allied blinded"

john

 

[mosquitoman]

I agree, the German army had the best quality equipment but the allies had 2 big advantages, one was that we had very efficient supply lines- the German army was still using horses for transport purposes. The other advantage is that quantity has a quality all it's own

 

[cheddar cheese]

Just because guys have the most kills doesnt automatically make them the best...Russians fought with a large disadvantage against the Germans. (I actually voted for Priller in the poll though.)

Before you complain, I am not anti-German or anything of the sort. The Germans are my favourite nation in terms of aviation of the war.

 

[BombTaxi]

I personally went for Galland, mainly because he made an outstanding contribution to the Luftwaffe as a staff officer as wellas a combat pilot. For a similar reason, I would have been inclined to include Bader in the poll as well as Johnson

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You have to go for either Hartmann (just because he was so young, never given a chance and beat everyones expectations) or Heinz Baer. Baer was an outstanding pilot and one of the greatest ever to fly a combat aircraft.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i don't have to go for anyone, and what's not specail about taking out 38 single engined planes and getting holed once, or flying with fake legs??

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think Lanc is getting aggrivated.

 

[Erich]

I stick with Heinz BAer for several reasons.............a distant relative for one

second the man flew many different fighters including the hot rod 262 and the rocket assisted 262.

third and lastly the many was on many different threaters of combat, flew against the best the Allies had to offer. In my opinion Hartmann's kills his first years of combat were inexperienced and easy pickings of Soviet fighters.....having the highest scores does not make you the best. incidently marseilles claims on the Afrika front are somewhat specualtive. At least 25-30 are suspect

 

[acesman]

Hartman did fight against Americans, and claimed several Mustangs over Romania, but I agree that you really have to judge a pilot by his opponents. For instance, the "Marianas Turkey Shoot" is not so much a tribute to the skill of the Hellcat pilots involved, but to the poor quality of the Japanese pilots. From that standpoint, Kozhedub or Priller would have to be considered the best, and I would vote for Priller, just for staying alive (and scoring some successes) for the last 16 months of the war against an overwhelming US/British air armada.

 

[Gnomey]

I would say Hartmann or Priller. Hartmann because of his large number of kills and Priller because of his success against the allies on the Western Front in the last part of the war against overwhelming superiority

 

[Erich]

if you guys are going just by latter war years in the ETO and surviving I could number 20-30 pilots better than Priller. Remember that Geschwader Kommodores for good reason were pulled from air combat service much to their own disliking to serve as administrative co-ordinators. The guys had to have some say as to what inner airfields they were to move their Geschwadern..........plus the moral booster of privately getting the new recruits trained which seemed an impossible task due to the high attrition of these 4-5 mission pilots, my cousin included in that very factor

E