Just Schmidt
Senior Airman
There's this incident known as the battle of Midway.
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There's this incident known as the battle of Midway.Well, when and where?
If I'm reading your post correctly there were 36 operational P-40s and P-35s with 30calMGs? Out of 100000 AAF and USN fighters with 50cals and or cannons? That's .00036%.
200yds was way too short ranged. One had to get within 200yds of a fighter to have a good chance at a victory? Or within 200yds of a bomber that was returning fire? The 30s didn't have enough hitting power or range. That's why the AAF/USN used 50calMGs and the British progressed to the 20mm cannon.
The problem of course being that there was no 7150lbs P39.My point is: British were specifying 30cals on P-400s when shortly the AAF/USN would move on to 50cals and cannon.
A 1942 P-39/400 at 7150lbs looks pretty good against P-38s since they weren't in combat until late 1942. P-47 was not in combat until spring 1943. Would outclimb a Mustang I and go about the same top speed. Spitfire IX started in mid '42 but production didn't get rolling until :ate '42. Would outclimb a Typhoon and about as fast. As far as a FW190A5 it would be outclimbed by a 7150lb P-39/400.
No it didnt, the only thing that comes up short is your ability to read, comprehend and remember. On a heavy long range daylight bombing raid no bomber or escort fighter took off and headed for the target, once you understand that you are making progress.Put that into perspective with Berlin being 520mi from England. P-47 came up a little (a lot) short. This computation uses the most economical setting (105gph) for the P-47 at 25000'. Most charts give the P-47 with drop tank a combat radius of 375mi but that is still way short of Berlin.
Are those figures for my "Bastille Day 'Bolt" or my wrong choice, the P-47D-25 RE?P-47D-25 didn't get to combat until mid-'44. P-39D was operational mid-'42. That's two full years.
To get combat radius go to the Flight Operation Instruction Chart in the P-47 pilot's manual. Take total fuel including 110gal drop tank 415gal. Then compute the "fooling around time" as you put it by deducting the takeoff and climb allowance 45gal, 20 minute combat reserve 90gal, and 20 minute reserve for landing 25gal. The net fuel 255gal can be used for cruising is divided by 105 gallons per hour at 25000' yielding 2.4hours cruising time. Multiply by 285mph TAS cruising speed (190 IAS) for a total of 684mi. Divide by 2 for 342mi combat radius.
Put that into perspective with Berlin being 520mi from England. P-47 came up a little (a lot) short. This computation uses the most economical setting (105gph) for the P-47 at 25000'. Most charts give the P-47 with drop tank a combat radius of 375mi but that is still way short of Berlin.
1942, and 500% were P-39s, we have run into real number, time and type problems here, the decimal point is like an IFF set, you can put it anywhere.Uh, when did the US have 100,000 fighters operational at one time?
I stopped debating flight manual charts with you because you don't now how to use them properly and refuse to listen to people on here who are actual pilots and flown real airplanes, and I don't want to continually bang my head against the wall. There is no "combat reserve" or "landing reserve," that is calculated within your flight planning. A 30 or 45 minute reserve is what is normally planned into a mission should something happen and you have to extend. It's quite obvious that many missions were flown well into the reserve calculation.P-47D-25 didn't get to combat until mid-'44. P-39D was operational mid-'42. That's two full years.
To get combat radius go to the Flight Operation Instruction Chart in the P-47 pilot's manual. Take total fuel including 110gal drop tank 415gal. Then compute the "fooling around time" as you put it by deducting the takeoff and climb allowance 45gal, 20 minute combat reserve 90gal, and 20 minute reserve for landing 25gal. The net fuel 255gal can be used for cruising is divided by 105 gallons per hour at 25000' yielding 2.4hours cruising time. Multiply by 285mph TAS cruising speed (190 IAS) for a total of 684mi. Divide by 2 for 342mi combat radius.
Put that into perspective with Berlin being 520mi from England. P-47 came up a little (a lot) short. This computation uses the most economical setting (105gph) for the P-47 at 25000'. Most charts give the P-47 with drop tank a combat radius of 375mi but that is still way short of Berlin.
P-39 is fighting his own war in his own plane making his own calculations about how he will attack Berlin, I guess the bombers will just have to hunker on in behind. When you read Parks instructions to controllers saying two good squadrons climbing together to 30,000ft take 15% longer than one squadron then its clear things arent as simple as an individual planes performance. Drgondogs recent post on another thread shows how complex things were and what the room to manoeuvre for the escorts was.I stopped debating flight manual charts with you because you don't now how to use them properly and refuse to listen to people on here who are actual pilots and flown real airplanes, and I don't want to continually bang my head against the wall. There is no "combat reserve" or "landing reserve," that is calculated within your flight planning. A 30 or 45 minute reserve is what is normally planned into a mission should something happen and you have to extend. It's quite obvious that many missions were flown well into the reserve calculation.
I'm not going to debate this with you!!!!
To the other members partaking in these discussions, any "calculations" our friend here comes up with regards to flight planning and using flight manual charts, I would really double check if you have access to the data/ flight manual.
Joe Baugher says 131 P-40Bs and 193 P-40Cs were produced for the AAF for a grand total of 324 produced. And maybe 60 P-35As. These early P-40s and P-35s represent .4% (that's 4 tenths of one percent) of the 100000 fighters produced by America for the AAF/USN. Totally insignificant by any measure. The rest had 50calMGs/cannon. Except for the P-39.Lol, no it means that on 7 Dec 1941 40% of the USAAC first-line fighters in Philippines were armed with .300 mgs, Wiki says that most of USAAC fighters on Oahu were P-40Bs, I had exact numbers in my attic, but because you do not mind facts, why bother, you like to use wiki, so be it. Now that means that when the Pacific War began, most of the USAAC fighters there were armed with .300s (plus also with two 0.5s). That was over a year after the end of the BoB.
Maybe this thread gives to you some idea on air combat RAF Fighter Gunnery Analysis the main point to understand air gunnery and air combat is that to achieve a kill in 99.9% of the cases you must first hit the enemy a/c.
The discussion is about planes in service at the end of October 1940, not the end of the war, you have just done that goalpost thing again.Joe Baugher says 131 P-40Bs and 193 P-40Cs were produced for the AAF for a grand total of 324 produced. And maybe 60 P-35As. These early P-40s and P-35s represent .4% (that's 4 tenths of one percent) of the 100000 fighters produced by America for the AAF/USN. Totally insignificant by any measure. The rest had 50calMGs/cannon. Except for the P-39.
One could say that all the AAF/USN fighters in combat were armed with 50calMGs and/or cannon, but he would only be 99.96% correct. Except for P-39s.
The discussion is about how many AAF/USN fighters had 30calMGs in WWII. We weren't even at war in October 1940, not for another year.The discussion is about planes in service at the end of October 1940, not the end of the war, you have just done that goalpost thing again.
But that isnt how the discussion started, it was about the cheating British wanting heavy armament in the P-39 when they didnt have them in their own. I said that they were using cannon in 1940 Spitfires and you made your statement about US airplanes. So the discussion is about the end of the BoB. It doesnt matter to me that the USA wasnt at war, the UK was.The discussion is about how many AAF/USN fighters had 30calMGs in WWII. We weren't even at war in October 1940, not for another year.
Inside the Spitfire.Okay, here's what I'm trying to figure out. Remember the map of Europe posted once having concentric circles indicating fighter escort ranges? Had it been there, how far would the semi circle go for the the P-39? Say mid 1943.
How far you can go depends on altitude and rated altitude and a lot of other things, the Spitfire MkIX and Mk VIII were short ranged but could cruise at 25,000ft the P-39 couldnt cruise at that altitude it could just stay there for a short while.Appreciate it, Brother.
First of all, 200 yards is 600 feet or roughly an eighth of a mile - this is a distance where many fighters engaged.If I'm reading your post correctly there were 36 operational P-40s and P-35s with 30calMGs? Out of 100000 AAF and USN fighters with 50cals and or cannons? That's .00036%.
200yds was way too short ranged. One had to get within 200yds of a fighter to have a good chance at a victory? Or within 200yds of a bomber that was returning fire? The 30s didn't have enough hitting power or range. That's why the AAF/USN used 50calMGs and the British progressed to the 20mm cannon.
See my post #2617.