SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That's only if the basement floods.
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That's only if the basement floods.I hope our friend is a good swimmer. I get the feeling he may need that skill if he were to go flying in his P39.
Does anyone doubt it?Jees, only forty more pages to the big two double oh! Think we can make it?
That would be a mistake.Quite frankly, I'd trust LW records more than VVS from this era.
Surely the poor old Buffalo has to be up there in terms of success rates. Even including all operational users, it still attained a 26:1 kill:loss ratio....largely due to the Finns, of course (and I should note those are claims rather than indisputable kills).
That would be a mistake.
It may well be the most successful US fighter flown by other nations than the USA, but there were a lot of them. Then there is the thorny issue of "success", the Mustang MkI, IA and Mk II would still have been a complete success if it never shot an enemy plane down.It's a mystery to me. I've read that the P-39 was the most successful American fighter (flown by any nation) of them all. I find that hard to believe, considering especially F6F had so many in 44-45. Another thing is that I don't really trust Soviet records myself, but who else do we ask, right?
Quite frankly, I'd trust LW records more than VVS from this era.
Brotha, I don't have the info to say anything contrary, but I won't lie, I'm skeptical of that.
Truth be told, it'd be cool if you twisted this thread into a discussion about the Buff, because everything here feels a little tired. So what've you got? Where am I selling you andSaparotRob short?
Anything's better than this groundhogging, and I'll take the blame for going off-topic.
Hi FlyboyJ. I have a Soviet Ace list, but it doesn't say what aircraft the pilot was flying. It DOES list the unit, but I don't have a list of what units flew what aircraft. More importantly, I don't have a timeline of each victory claim, so even if I DID have a list of which unit flew which aircraft at what time, it could not be matched up by the victory list.In the USAAF -
I've been trying to find out what the kill/ loss ratio the VVS had against the Luftwaffe with the P-39.
The Finns alone managed a 32:1 kill/loss tally, claiming 459 shot down for only 15 air combat losses (Source: Finnish Air Force - Wikipedia). Yes, I know it's Wiki but the numbers tally pretty well with the Keskinen and Stenman 2-volume work on the Brewster in Finnish service (they claim 33:1), which is the most comprehensive history of the type in Finland. I trust the authors' research.
The Commonwealth squadrons in Malaya and Singapore claimed 67 kills (with a further 34 claimed as Probables) for 28 air combat losses (Source: "Buffaloes Over Singapore", Cull et al). Somewhere I have numbers for 67 Sqn that was in Burma but I can't locate the details right now.
So...yes, I think the 26:1 kill:loss ratio is pretty solid for the poor old Buffalo.
What do you think made those numbers work? I'm ignorant, so forgive my dumb questions; I'm used to hearing about them being shot down in droves at Midway. What were we Americans missing that the Finns, or even RAF, got somewhat right?
This is an honest question, pleas don't take it otherwise.
Not entirely sure I understand the question. Are you asking why did the Finns do so supremely well, and the Commonwealth didn't do too terribly?
Its a case of what against what. Look at the figures the LW achieved in the early days of Barbarossa. Prior to WW2 starting the Soviet Union had more aircraft than the rest of the world combined.What do you think made those numbers work? I'm ignorant, so forgive my dumb questions; I'm used to hearing about them being shot down in droves at Midway. What were we Americans missing that the Finns, or even RAF, got somewhat right?
This is an honest question, please don't take it otherwise.
... or why Americans did so poorly? Or why I might think that?
Hi Greg - great stuff, many thanks! I remember you talking about this over the years, pretty awesome! I might be able to extract some data from this, I think I remember reading somewhere that VVS P-39s claimed over 2,200 Luftwaffe aircraft. Hoping to verify this number and find out how many VVS P-39s were claimed by the Luftwaffe.Hi FlyboyJ. I have a Soviet Ace list, but it doesn't say what aircraft the pilot was flying. It DOES list the unit, but I don't have a list of what units flew what aircraft. More importantly, I don't have a timeline of each victory claim, so even if I DID have a list of which unit flew which aircraft at what time, it could not be matched up by the victory list.
In fact, the world Ace list I have is attached. Enjoy. The file isn't exactly finished since there are 2 or 3 countries absent, but working on things like this over time is slow. So, anyone who can add some data ... please DO SO! Oh, and, please reattach it in here or in a new thread.
Let me digest what you have - I know there's been some things updated on the site but don't know if a file that size could be downloaded. Many thanks for the offer!Hi FlyboyJ, I still have very LARGE files I could post, but some exceed the file size limit (or they did at the time, some years past).
I have an Excel file with data on over 1000 airplanes, 99% of which are WWII airplanes. But, it's 105 Mb in size, so it didn't use to be able to be posted. Maybe it can be now. Let me know.
Updated my response - let me ask the other guys who are a little bit more savvy than INo problem. The entire population of WWII aviation enthusiasts isn't all THAT large, and is shrinking daily as we die off.
Why not share the information while there is still interest?
Again, maybe we need a sticky thread for sharing files. Alternately, I could PM YOU the file or files and YOU could upload it?