Groundhog Thread v. 2.0 - The most important battle of WW2

[pbehn]

Did any of you guys know there's an INDIAN Ocean?

As a Brit I dont consider that a serious question. There is an Ocean we know as the Indian Ocean but it isnt actually an ocean it is a body of water south of India.

I first read the name as a kid in a book about the Battle of the River Plate and the Graf Spee which went there

German Raiders in the Indian Ocean - Pacific Eagles

Through 1940 and 1941, several German surface raiders operated in the Indian Ocean where they were up against Allied warships attempting to hunt them down.

pacificeagles.net

German merchant raiders were even more active in the Indian Ocean than they were in the Pacific. The first Kriegsmarine surface vessels to reach the Indian Ocean was the pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee, which made a brief foray into the Indian Ocean at the end of October 1939. The Graf Spee made a short detour during her cruise in the South Atlantic, intending to confuse the British as to her plans. She had little success at this stage of her career, finding and sinking the tanker Africa Shell, but finding little else worthy of her 11-inch main guns. After spending two weeks in the Indian Ocean she returned to the Atlantic, where she eventually met her fate after the Battle of the River Plate.​

 

[SaparotRob]

Since being here I've read about a lot about the other theatres than the usual PTO stuff that grabs my attention. This is so I can keep up with the discussions here. I've learned about the Polish invasion of Germany. I've read up on topics only casually mentioned by the Forum members. The Admiral got me studying up on that theater (American spelling this time). Vague generalizations have been fleshed out with facts (mind numbing sometimes). I had knowledge about Lend Lease but not at the level I have now. I've learned more than I'll ever admit about aeronautics from the groundhog threads. I've just gained more insight about the attack on Pearl Harbor from ThomasP's post. Being nominally a battleship, I'm quite familiar with KMS Graf Spee's adventures and some eerie parallels it has with Von Spee's activities in the prior war. Even the Altmark. Yeah, I was joking. Just playing on the supposed provincialness of Americans. I'm also quite aware now of Britain's MAJOR contributions to naval aviation. I just can't understand why the FAA's planes were so goofy.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As I said, London and Anchorage Alaska are exactly due north of each other, we live on a globe.

As I implied earlier, we can define cardinal points any way we feel, which seems to be the modus operandi of our interlocutor.

 

[pbehn]

Since being here I've read about a lot about the other theatres than the usual PTO stuff that grabs my attention. This is so I can keep up with the discussions here. I've learned about the Polish invasion of Germany. I've read up on topics only casually mentioned by the Forum members. The Admiral got me studying up on that theater (American spelling this time). Vague generalizations have been fleshed out with facts (mind numbing sometimes). I had knowledge about Lend Lease but not at the level I have now. I've learned more than I'll ever admit about aeronautics from the groundhog threads. I've just gained more insight about the attack on Pearl Harbor from ThomasP's post. Being nominally a battleship, I'm quite familiar with KMS Graf Spee's adventures and some eerie parallels it has with Von Spee's activities in the prior war. Even the Altmark. Yeah, I was joking. Just playing on the supposed provincialness of Americans. I'm also quite aware now of Britain's MAJOR contributions to naval aviation. I just can't understand why the FAA's planes were so goofy.

But do you know where the German sea is?

 

[GrauGeist]

I was always impressed how sailors were able to navigate the world when it was a Mercator Projection.

Talk about incredible skill!!

 

[pbehn]

I was always impressed how sailors were able to navigate the world when it was a Mercator Projection.

Talk about incredible skill!!

Truth to tell a lot of the time they didn't, that's why we now have insurance companies, clocks and telescopes

 

[SaparotRob]

But do you know where the German sea is?

I can proudly answer NOPE!

 

[SaparotRob]

....and I'm not looking it up either. So there!

 

[GrauGeist]

Everyone knows where the German sea is, but how many know where the Holy See is?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As I said, London and Anchorage Alaska are exactly due north of each other, we live on a globe.

As I implied earlier, we can define cardinal points any way we feel, which seems to be the modus operandi of our interlocutor. But there's an agreed-upon standard.

Truth to tell a lot of the time they didn't, that's why we now have insurance companies, clocks and telescopes

A really good read on this topic is The Discoverers by Daniel Boorstein, Librarian Emeritus of the US Library of Congress. He delves specifically into the intersection of nautical navigation and the development of the clock and sextant, among many other developments produced by the age of exploration (compass, the adoption of lateen sails for tacking, and so on).

We still need insurance companies, though, in this age of GPS, because now as always, s**t happens.

 

[SaparotRob]

Everyone knows where the German sea us, but how many know where the Holy See is?

ooohhhh ooohhh I actually know this one!

 

[SaparotRob]

Okay, I looked it up. Why didn't they call it "Liberty Ocean"?

 

[ljadw]

Ok, so originally, rail was either non-existant or not used. Now rail was essential because roads were unreliable.
The shifting emphasis now seems to be special rivers all over Europe for transporting oil, because trucks can only drive short distances.

Then there's this new revelation that German oil is different than Soviet oil - so what was the difference? The writing on the label perhaps?

I did not say that German oil is different than Soviet oil . Try to read what I said .
I said that the oil that was needed in Germany was different than the oil the Red Army needed .And , that is not what you are claiming what I said .

 

[ljadw]

Please explicate.

The oil that was needed in Germany was used for the LW ( Synthetic produced oil ),for the KM and for the economy . The oil needed by the Ostheer was different, the same for the oil needed by the Soviet economy and by the Red Army .
Gasoline is not the same as diesel .
AND, the distances in Germany were much shorter than those in the USSR .It took a long time for trains to transport fuel from the Russian refineries to the Red Army over more than thousand km.

 

[ljadw]

Why didnt the French just put Danubes all over France?

?????

 

[GrauGeist]

I did not say that German oil is different than Soviet oil . Try to read what I said .
I said that the oil that was needed in Germany was different than the oil the Red Army needed .

The oil that was needed in Germany was used for the LW ( Synthetic produced oil ),for the KM and for the economy . The oil needed by the Ostheer was different, the same for the oil needed by the Soviet economy and by the Red Army .
Gasoline is not the same as diesel .
AND, the distances in Germany were much shorter than those in the USSR .It took a long time for trains to transport fuel from the Russian refineries to the Red Army over more than thousand km.

It apoears that you have no idea about machine lubrication regardless if it was a Volkswagen engine or a Fw190 engine. The Germans were developing synthetics because of natural oil supply shortages.
They required standard oil viscosities just like a Soviet, British or American engine REGARDLESS of the application.
The lubricating grease viscosities were the same, the crank-case viscosities were the same, there was no difference.

The crankcase oil of a Tiger tank is comparable to the crankcase oil of a Bf109...no difference. None. Period.

And adding that "Gasoline is different than Deisel" is rather ridiculous, as every one here is well aware of that, so it was a waste of time both for you to type it and for us to read it.

 

[pbehn]

....and I'm not looking it up either. So there!

The old name for the North Sea, changed before WW1. (Also German Ocean was used).

 

[ljadw]

It apoears that you have no idea about machine lubrication regardless if it was a Volkswagen engine or a Fw190 engine. The Germans were developing synthetics because of natural oil supply shortages.
They required standard oil viscosities just like a Soviet, British or American engine REGARDLESS of the application.
The lubricating grease viscosities were the same, the crank-case viscosities were the same, there was no difference.

The crankcase oil of a Tiger tank is comparable to the crankcase oil of a Bf109...no difference. None. Period.

And adding that "Gasoline is different than Deisel" is rather ridiculous, as every one here is well aware of that, so it was a waste of time both for you to type it and for us to read it.

The German avgas was almost totally synthetic oil , not domestic or imported natural oil .This was not so for the Allies .
And the Germans used gasoline for their tanks, the Soviets diesel .
And, what is comparable is different . Identical things can not be compared .
Besides, allied aircraft used different fuel than German and Soviet aircraft .

 

[pbehn]

Besides, allied aircraft used different fuel than German and Soviet aircraft .

What about the "allied" aircraft and tanks made in USA and UK that were used by the Russians. Did they use plastic gloves or something?

 

[ljadw]

German jets used diesel.
US jets used JP-4 = 1/2 gasoline and 1/2 kerosine .