Guy Gibson's Mosquito

[jaylg]

I am trying to find pictures of the mosquito that Guy Gibson was flying before his crash, have done a model of the Lanc he flew and think a model of the mossy would complete my little Gibson collection.

What i know at the moment is it was a Mk XX, Reg KB267 AZ - E and that he flew with 627 squadron.

Can anyone shed a bit more light please.

 

[mosquitoman]

Well, this is a surviving piece of that plane http://www.mossie.org/images/donated_images/Barry_Pemberton/1_002.jpg

 

[jaylg]

Thats about the only pic i have been able to find, do you know whether there are any pics of it before the crash.
Need to know what camouflage scheme it had.

 

[mosquitoman]

No idea I'm afraid, I'll have a look but not promising anything.

 

[jaylg]

Cheers Mosquitoman, looking at the piece put against the other Mosquito it pretty much a match in colour scheme.

 

[jaylg]

Was thinking the other day if it was part of the pathfinders then it would have had a black underside not grey, anybody know for sure.

 

[Hot Space]

Click

It's the 10th one down

 

[mhuxt]

Pictures of 627 Squadron Mosquitos, (some in colour!) are here:

627 Squadron in retirement.

 

[jaylg]

Cheers looks like it was grey on the underside of the plane then.

 

[mosquitoman]

Great site, thanks HS

 

[Hot Space]

Anytime m8

 

[jaylg]

Well on my search Mosquitoman came across this site.

The de Havilland Mosquito

 

[Atters247]

One problem with this. AZ is actually 234 squadron (RAF Squadron Codes - WWII) which didn't fly mosquitos. When he was shot down, Gibson was flying Mosquito's as part of the Pathfinder force leading a raid over Rheydt. The Pathfinder squadrons flying Mosquitos were 105 and 139 squadrons.

All info I've been able to find shows Gibson flew his last with 267 squadron which were detached to No. 8 PFF although the history of 267 Squadron shows they spent the war flying supply drops over Italy and the Balkans before moving first to Italy in November 1943 and then India in February 1945 flying Pembrokes, Pioneers and Dakotas.

Oberleutnant Kurt Welter claims to have shot Gibson down on the Rheydt raid, mainly as Welter claims to have shot down a Mosquito and Gibson's Mossie was the only one missing from the raid. Given the lack of images available for Gibson's Mosquito, I assume you could paint your Mossie in any suitable scheme for a Pathfinder Squadron

 

[mhuxt]

Dude,

You can see the AZ codes on the photos of the mossies in the 627 Squadron in retirement link I posted above.

Note that it's 627 Squadron, not 267.627 was initially part of 8 Group (AVM Bennett), but were transferred by Harris to 5 Group (AVM Cochrane), as the Cochrane believed he could get better results with low-level marking than with the high-level marking favoured by Bennett, who at the time was vehemently opposed to low-level ops.

105 and 139 were not the only mossie Pathfinder squadrons - you've omitted 109 Squadron for a start, which was the original Oboe unit and which was undertaking ops with mossies for 8 Group with Oboe from December '42 onwards. 627 Sqn was originally formed from 139 Sqn, before being transferred to 5 Group. By the time of Gibson's death, there were many more mossie squads in 8 Group (sorry, away from my hard drive so I cant give you unit numbers)

From memory, Welter's claim was in the Berlin area. It's about as likely that Welter shot down Gibson as that Amy Winehouse shot down Gibson.

 

[Greyman]

"It was assumed for many years that he had been shot down, but following the discovery of the wreckage of his plane, it was found that a fault with the fuel tank selector had meant that the aircraft had simply run out of fuel. An eye-witness account detailed how his aircraft circled Steenbergen in Holland, and then heard its engines 'splutter and stop'."

RAF Benson - News and Weather

 

[v2]

The Sun's news:
Dambusters hero Guy Gibson 'killed by the RAF' | The Sun |News|Campaigns|Our Boys

 

[Glider]

I saw these headlines and one thing that irritated me, was in some quarters they were blaming the gunners. Any night bomber gunner had every right if approached by a twin engined aircraft, to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Edgar Brooks]

There's an awful lot that doesn't tie up, in that story, and I wonder if that gunner was made to suffer unnecessarily.
The IO went on about the Mosquito's radio being out, yet Gibson was heard congratulating the bombers on a job well done, as he took his leave.
Why would an experienced Wing Commander, and ex-bomber pilot, creep up behind a bomber, knowing how edgy tailgunners could be, and not draw attention to himself, at the very least by flashing his navigation lamps?
Why would he sacrifice 100 mph advantage, to (allegedly) follow a bomber home, instead of haring back to somewhere over England, and baling out if he couldn't find somewhere to land?
How could he fail to find his way home, even if his radar (allegedly) was faulty? He had a gyro compass in front of him, a non-electrical pilot's compass to his front/left, and the navigator had his hand-held non-electrical Observer's compass, and all three couldn't possibly fail.
How, if he was shot down, did an eye-witness hear his engines stop, but fail to hear any gunfire?
How, if he was shot down, did another eye-witness see the aircraft coming down, with its cockpit lights on, but failed to mention that it was on fire?

 

[stona]

From memory, Welter's claim was in the Berlin area. It's about as likely that Welter shot down Gibson as that Amy Winehouse shot down Gibson.

Welter's claim was at Wittenberg which is South West of Berlin and a long,long way from either the target or the wreck site. I have my own opinion on Welter's claims.Gibson's was the only Mosquito lost that night and Welter was nowhere near it (about 600Km away).
I'm sure Amy Winehouse would have been a fine night fighter pilot

As Edgar points out,to believe the Sun's story you would have to believe that Gibson was both incompetent and a fool which is a leap too far for me.

Cheers
Steve