kitplane01
Airman 1st Class
- 135
- Apr 23, 2020
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RAF class A airfieldsDid either the Allies of the Axis have many hard paved runways in operational combat use?
As a silly example (and please don't move this to what-if) did the Allies/Axis have the sort of runways we would now use to operate an F-16/B-52? Were they really landing DC-4s or Constellations on grass? And where ever they were landing DC-4s or Constellations, did they run combat ops out of those bases?
OK. Awesome and thanks. But how many Class A Airfields were there? Wiki implies at least 8 but maybe more.RAF class A airfields
Did either the Allies of the Axis have many hard paved runways in operational combat use?
As a silly example (and please don't move this to what-if) did the Allies/Axis have the sort of runways we would now use to operate an F-16/B-52? Were they really landing DC-4s or Constellations on grass? And where ever they were landing DC-4s or Constellations, did they run combat ops out of those bases?
In 1939 there were about 100 permanent airfields in Britain. By 1945 that had risen to over 700.OK. Awesome and thanks. But how many Class A Airfields were there? Wiki implies at least 8 but maybe more.
HiDid either the Allies of the Axis have many hard paved runways in operational combat use?
As a silly example (and please don't move this to what-if) did the Allies/Axis have the sort of runways we would now use to operate an F-16/B-52? Were they really landing DC-4s or Constellations on grass? And where ever they were landing DC-4s or Constellations, did they run combat ops out of those bases?
HiWow y'all much thanks! I'm impressed!
Another bit to add was the U.S. development of Pierced Steel Planking (Marston Mat) just before World War 2. This allowed the Combat Engineers / SeaBees (Navy) to carve hard-surface forward airfields out quickly, creating mostly weatherproof airstrips in a matter of days. (It wasn't perfect, but it beats waiting for a 25cm thick concrete slab to cure.
HiAnother bit to add was the U.S. development of Pierced Steel Planking (Marston Mat) just before World War 2. This allowed the Combat Engineers / SeaBees (Navy) to carve hard-surface forward airfields out quickly, creating mostly weatherproof airstrips in a matter of days. (It wasn't perfect, but it beats waiting for a 25cm thick concrete slab to cure.
HiIt was used quite a lot in Europe. Unless the airfield in question was a captured one that had its runways intact, there was almost always PSP//PBS/SMT involved - either for covering the newly constructed runways on the temporary fields or for repairs of existing runways, as well as for constructing numbers of hard stands and taxiways. The general name for the new-build airfields on the continent was ALG (Advanced Landing Ground).
see "Advanced landing ground - Wikipedia"
A long time ago (mid-'90s)I I read a very good history of the IX Engineer Command that went into very detailed descriptions of the various aspects of building an ALG. I looked online just now but did find mention of it (that may be due to my not remembering the name/source), but I will look some more.
The war lasted a long time, at the start you could say not many were paved concrete asphalt or whatever "hard standing". In peacetime, nothing is absolutely urgent, once war was declared it was quickly realised that there were few activities that can easily be postponed. The first thought is bombers because they are heavy, but you could postpone your own bombing activities more easily than your fighter defence which had work all the time, day and night. Same for training, Air Sea Rescue, even "transport" which doesnt sound important but the first use of the B-24 was not for what it was designed for, it was used to ferry pilots, to transport documents like Merlin engine blue prints, contracts for Mustangs, transport Churchill himself and in the Battle of the Atlantic, which B-24 do you want to crash and burn on take off or landing doing any of that? I raced motorcycles in the early 1980s and many former RAF airfields in UK were used for racing. Some like Thruxton, Silverstone, Snetterton Croft Elvington Carnaby and West Raynham were known as WW2 airfields famous for what they did during the war. However others like Ouston and Silloth were not, Silloth was a Coastal Command airfield mainly use for training but it had concrete runways. Apart from racing, my wife gets her hair cut on what use to be RAF Thornaby, which was a concreted airfield mainly used for Air Sea Rescue, and in the 1990s I worked on a oil/gas project which used the concrete runway of RAF Tain in Scotland to weld together a "sub sea pipe bundle", since the end of the runway was at the start of the sea it was ideal. It just needed a specialist team of workers to make railway line that ran into the sea, the first and probably last time they would be asked to do such a thing.Did either the Allies of the Axis have many hard paved runways in operational combat use?
As a silly example (and please don't move this to what-if) did the Allies/Axis have the sort of runways we would now use to operate an F-16/B-52? Were they really landing DC-4s or Constellations on grass? And where ever they were landing DC-4s or Constellations, did they run combat ops out of those bases?
A full-loaded B-52 needs more than that. At least, the ones with J57 jet engines did. The J57 had anywhere from 8,700 lbf (39 kN) to 13,750 lnf (61.2 kN). In 1961, they started being delivered with TF33 turbofans with 17,100 lbf (17 kN). In the mid-1970s, they started thinking about using Rolls-Royce RB211 engines, but never did use them. In 2001, the USAF decided to purchase 650 Rolls-Royce F130s.Understand that F-16s can use 5,000 or so foot runways, and a fully-loaded B-52 probably needs more like 7-8,000 foot, so while both sides had many paved runways in WWII, that's not to say they could accommodate those jets, necessarily.
No doubt the UK and/or Germany had -- in 1945 -- the highest numbers of long concrete airstrips, with some able to handle jets. But the Japanese and Americans both had healthy hard-paved air bases, at Munda, Rabaul, and the Marianas, too. Andersen AFB in Guam handles B-52s, B-1s, and B-2s to this day (though it may have been extended, not sure).
But to answer your first question, yes, both sides had hard runways.
A full-loaded B-52 needs more than that. At least, the ones with J57 jet engines did. The J57 had anywhere from 8,700 lbf (39 kN) to 13,750 lnf (61.2 kN). In 1961, they started being delivered with TF33 turbofans with 17,100 lbf (17 kN). In hte Mid-1970s, they started thinking about using Rolls-Royce RB211 engines, but never did use them. In 2001, the USAF decided to purchase 650 Rolls-Royce F130s.
I was in the USAF in the mid-1970s and the units t Ellsworth was the 28Tth Bombardment Wing. Not too sure which engines they used, but they emitted a LOT of black smoke during takeoff! I think J57s. Those things were ground lovers of the first magnitude.
BUFF don't look fat to me.