Hawker Hurricane serial number? (1 Viewer)

[hawker.1966]

Hi
Would anyone know if I could somehow get an aircraft's identification from this mod plate serial number? The serial number reads 46189 and was shot down over Murmansk Russia, the Hurricane is a Mk11B but one of the modifications was extended wings so possibly may of started life as a Mk1, the mod plate comes with the spade grip that I also have so it would be great if somehow I can find its identity.
As always any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mjfur]

The Soviet Union’s Hawker Hurricanes

While Soviet pilots typically preferred US-built fighters such as the P-39 Airacobra over the British Hawker Hurricane, the latter was the first Western Allied aircraft to arrive in the Soviet Unio…

vvsairwar.com

Nevertheless, deliveries continued, and by 1944, when Hurricane shipments ceased, the Soviet military had accepted 2,834 examples of the British-built fighter. As mentioned above, initial batches were comprised of Mk. IIB models, which, along with their Canadian-built analogs (X, XI, and XII) would account for more than half the Hurricanes flown by Soviet forces. Approximately 200 Mk. IIAs, armed with eight Browning machine guns, were also sent by the British, and just over 1,000 Mk. IICs, with their four 20 mm Hispano cannon, were flown by Soviet forces. A small number of Mk. IIDs (two 40 mm cannon) were also sent to the USSR.

74 Pages of IIB's

RAF Aircraft Hawker Hurricane Database

This is a database of all RAF aircraft serial numbers that were active during WW2 and after. Currently this covers the J - ZZ series that were active from the 1930s till date. In many logbooks, Pilots would have noted only the number component and left out the alphabet component. This tool helps...

www.rafcommands.com

 

[fubar57]

You've probably already seen this, "The number 46189 stamped on a modification plate attached to a recovered Hawker Hurricane Mk IIB control column spade grip does not match standard British Royal Air Force (RAF) or Soviet VVS serial number block allocations, posing an identification mystery often discussed among aviation researchers on forums"

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

British shipments to USSR, as of end June 1945. Air 22/310. 1st to 4th protocols, final Hurricane arrivals in January 1944.

Aircraft	sent	lost	rejected	accepted
Airacobra	255	53		202
Tomahawk	30			30
Hurricane IIA	176	22		154
Hurricane IIB	1690	278		1412
Hurricane IIC	1130	46	117	967
Spitfire IX	201			201
Spitfire IXE	985			985
Spitfire HF IXE	1			1
Totals	4468	399	117	3952

Aircraft	sent	rejected	accepted
Hurricane IIA	41		41	Shipped pre protocol
Hurricane IIB	159		159	Shipped pre protocol
Tomahawk	141		141	Shipped pre protocol
Tomahawk	59		59	from US on UK account
Airacobra	10		10	Shipped pre protocol for spares
Mustang I	4		4	Shipped pre protocol for trials
Hurricane IIA	1		1	Ex 151 Wing
Hurricane IIB	35		35	Ex 151 Wing
Spitfire VB	150		150	Offered in October 1942, handed over at Basra
Hampden	25		25	Handed over in North Russia, October 1942, torpedo bombers
Spitfire IV	3		3	Handed over in North Russia, October 1942
Spitfire IV	3		3	Handed over in North Russia, June 1944
Hurricane IID	60	14	46	Offered in April 1943, shipped to Basra
Albemarle	14		14	Flown out of UK by USSR ferry crews
Mosquito IV	1		1	Flown out of UK by USSR ferry crews
Hurricane IIC	52		52	Replacements for rejected aircraft, shipped in convoy JW.58, offered in January 1944
Hurricane IV	30		30	Replacements for rejected aircraft, handed over at Basra, offered in January 1944
Lancaster I	5		5	Force landed aircraft handed over in September 1944
Lancaster III	1		1	Force landed aircraft handed over in September 1944
Typhoon I	1		1	Shipped March 1945 to Middle East, arrived April 1945.
Stirling III	1		1	Flown to Adaban in February 1945
Airacobra	1		1	Shipped to Basra in error, believed to have arrived in Russia.
Total	797	14​	783

By Mark	sent	lost	rejected	accepted
Hurricane IIA	218​	22		196​
Hurricane IIB	1884​	278		1606​
Hurricane IIC	1182​	46	117	1019​
Hurricane IID	60		14	46​
Hurricane IV	30			30​
Total	3374​	346​	131​	2897​

Shipment lists, ships

There were no mark X and XI (except for some Canadian built mark I being called mark X in some RAF documents), for RAF orders the Canadians built incomplete airframes that were shipped to Britain, completed and added to the pool of available Hurricanes. Mark XII used Merlin 29 and were retained in Canada.

There were 100 Hurricane I converted to IIA and given new serials, of these 61 were sent to USSR, 3 of these were lost at sea

Other US built types were sent direct from the US on UK Lend Lease Account, "Britain for Russia".

 

[hawker.1966]

British shipments to USSR, as of end June 1945. Air 22/310. 1st to 4th protocols, final Hurricane arrivals in January 1944.

Aircraft	sent	lost	rejected	accepted
Airacobra	255	53		202
Tomahawk	30			30
Hurricane IIA	176	22		154
Hurricane IIB	1690	278		1412
Hurricane IIC	1130	46	117	967
Spitfire IX	201			201
Spitfire IXE	985			985
Spitfire HF IXE	1			1
Totals	4468	399	117	3952

Aircraft	sent	rejected	accepted
Hurricane IIA	41		41	Shipped pre protocol
Hurricane IIB	159		159	Shipped pre protocol
Tomahawk	141		141	Shipped pre protocol
Tomahawk	59		59	from US on UK account
Airacobra	10		10	Shipped pre protocol for spares
Mustang I	4		4	Shipped pre protocol for trials
Hurricane IIA	1		1	Ex 151 Wing
Hurricane IIB	35		35	Ex 151 Wing
Spitfire VB	150		150	Offered in October 1942, handed over at Basra
Hampden	25		25	Handed over in North Russia, October 1942, torpedo bombers
Spitfire IV	3		3	Handed over in North Russia, October 1942
Spitfire IV	3		3	Handed over in North Russia, June 1944
Hurricane IID	60	14	46	Offered in April 1943, shipped to Basra
Albemarle	14		14	Flown out of UK by USSR ferry crews
Mosquito IV	1		1	Flown out of UK by USSR ferry crews
Hurricane IIC	52		52	Replacements for rejected aircraft, shipped in convoy JW.58, offered in January 1944
Hurricane IV	30		30	Replacements for rejected aircraft, handed over at Basra, offered in January 1944
Lancaster I	5		5	Force landed aircraft handed over in September 1944
Lancaster III	1		1	Force landed aircraft handed over in September 1944
Typhoon I	1		1	Shipped March 1945 to Middle East, arrived April 1945.
Stirling III	1		1	Flown to Adaban in February 1945
Airacobra	1		1	Shipped to Basra in error, believed to have arrived in Russia.
Total	797	14​	783

By Mark	sent	lost	rejected	accepted
Hurricane IIA	218​	22		196​
Hurricane IIB	1884​	278		1606​
Hurricane IIC	1182​	46	117	1019​
Hurricane IID	60		14	46​
Hurricane IV	30			30​
Total	3374​	346​	131​	2897​

Shipment lists, ships

There were no mark X and XI (except for some Canadian built mark I being called mark X in some RAF documents), for RAF orders the Canadians built incomplete airframes that were shipped to Britain, completed and added to the pool of available Hurricanes. Mark XII used Merlin 29 and were retained in Canada.

There were 100 Hurricane I converted to IIA and given new serials, of these 61 were sent to USSR, 3 of these were lost at sea

Other US built types were sent direct from the US on UK Lend Lease Account, "Britain for Russia".

Hi
Thank you for the above replies would anyone know if there were any Mk11B's converted from Mk1 Hurricanes? As I mentioned on the main post my mod plate has the extended wing modification so could possibly be originally a Mk1.

 

[hawker.1966]

You've probably already seen this, "The number 46189 stamped on a modification plate attached to a recovered Hawker Hurricane Mk IIB control column spade grip does not match standard British Royal Air Force (RAF) or Soviet VVS serial number block allocations, posing an identification mystery often discussed among aviation researchers on forums"

Yes certainly a mystery as it appears to be a serial number but from where is the million dollar question.
So sadly it can't be traced back to its former self.
You would imagine it was recorded somewhere but..

 

[ThomasP]

FWIW

There was a Hurricane Mk IIB [BN461] included in a batch shipped to the USSR via S.57, arriving Murmansk Mar'42.

The Soviets did not always (I think) use the serial prefix letter(s) that the RAF/FAA used, since those were assigned by the AM.

I think I remember reading that the last 1, 2, or 3 numbers had something to do with the shipment number / batch designation that the USSR used to keep track of which batch the aircraft came from.

Maybe?

 

[ThomasP]

re any Hurricane Mk I converted to Mk IIB

There were a few Mk I converted to Mk IIA, and there were some Mk IIA converted to Mk IIB, but I do not know if there were any Mk I converted to Mk IIA to Mk IIB, or if there were any Mk I converted directly to Mk IIB.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Thank you for the above replies would anyone know if there were any Mk11B's converted from Mk1 Hurricanes? As I mentioned on the main post my mod plate has the extended wing modification so could possibly be originally a Mk1.

There was no such thing as a Hurricane extended wing modification, there was a 4 inch extension of the forward fuselage to handle the longer Merlin XX when it replaced the Merlin III.

Now we dive deep into the mysteries of Canadian Hawker Hurricane production, which were incomplete airframes when exported.

P5170 to P5209 (40 a/c)
T9519 to T9538 (20 a/c)
Z6983 to Z7162 (100 a/c)
AE958 to AE977 (20 a/c)
AF945 to AG344 (300 a/c) 30 to RCAF as 1351 to 1380, mark I fitted with Merlin III and propellers taken from Fairey Battles
AG665 to AG684 (20 a/c)
AM270 to AM369 (100 a/c) (AM270 became Dutch HC3-287)
AP138 (1 a/c, replacement for duplicate serial AM270 which was allocated to a Catalina)
BW835 to BX134 (200 a/c), with BW835 to BW884 (50 a/c) 50 Sea Hurricane I, mostly retained in Canada,
JS219 to JS468 (250 a/c)
RCAF 5376 to 5775 (400 a/c) 150 to RAF as PJ660 to PJ695, PJ711 to PJ758, PJ779 to PJ813 and PJ842 to PJ872.
Total 1,451

On 27 August 1941 Canada ordered 400 Hurricanes, 100 for the Netherlands East Indies, 300 for China, this changed to 72 for the Netherlands East Indies, 328 for the USSR, to use Merlin 28 and US built propellers and shipped across the Pacific. By the time production started in mid 1942 it was 400 for the RCAF, but in 1943 it was 250 RCAF and 150 RAF.

486 Mark I, all serials to AG340, then AG342, 343 and 344 and AG656 to 671. The rest had B wings, called mark II if fitted with Merlin XX, mark III if fitted with Merlin 28 (A few test flights only) or mark IIB(Can) then mark XII if fitted with Merlin 29. On arrival in Britain a number of mark II had C wings fitted. No Merlin 29 left Canada.

Canada paused production in August 1941 with 485 mark I built, the final mark I was built in October with mark II and Sea Hurricane production beginning in November. Britain records the arrival of 419 Hurricane I airframes to end August 1941, 8 more were lost at sea, 1 was a returning Hawker built Hurricane sent as a pattern aircraft, leaving 60 in Canada that were put into storage pending fitting of US built Merlins then to be used for training (AG287, 292 to 340, 342 to 344, 665 to 671). It was from these 60 that the RACF drew 30, while the remaining 30 were shipped to Britain where they were recorded as mark II, whether that was because they came with B wings or were reworked to full mark II status (fuselage extension, strengthened fuselage and wing center section) is unknown. As well what should have been the early mark II serials, the final AGxx and early AM serials, arrived in Britain starting 3 or so months after serials starting with AM297.

AG298, 301, 303, 320, 321, 324, 328, 329, 333, 336, 339, 343, 344, 665, 668 and 670 (16 a/c) were shipped to the USSR via Britain.

For details of them see production page 029

Survivors of RCAF Hurricane I and Sea Hurricane I were later fitted with Merlin 29 and called mark XIIA.

 

[hawker.1966]

FWIW

There was a Hurricane Mk IIB [BN461] included in a batch shipped to the USSR via S.57, arriving Murmansk Mar'42.

The Soviets did not always (I think) use the serial prefix letter(s) that the RAF/FAA used since those were assigned by the AM.

I think I remember reading that the last 1, 2, or 3 numbers had something to do with the shipment number / batch designation that the USSR used to keep track of which batch the aircraft came from.

Maybe?

That kind of makes sense, I guess all the answers would have been on the Russian side as I'm sure if this serial number would of possibly meant something to them but the strange thing is that the serial number is on one of our mod plates, very confusing.
Even the modification stamps has the same numbers stamps (Design) as the serial number.

re any Hurricane Mk I converted to Mk IIB

There were a few Mk I converted to Mk IIA, and there were some Mk IIA converted to Mk IIB, but I do not know if there were any Mk I converted to Mk IIA to Mk IIB, or if there were any Mk I converted directly to Mk IIB.

The mod numbers do relate to modifications from possibly a Mk1, one being as mentioned the wing extension I have a list of all the mod numbers and what they were somewhere I'll try and dig them out.

 

[hawker.1966]

Relating to whether a Mk11B could have been converted from a Mark 1 Hurricane here is a list of the modification numbers on the mod plate and what they represent.
114 Martin Baker blast tube added
164 12 gun wing
172 long range fuel tanks
177 G22 camera removed
187 Minor COG changes
202 Large ammo box
249 wiring improvements

Can anyone throw any light as at some point this Hurricane would of had the shorter wing.

 

[hawker.1966]

Relating to whether a Mk11B could have been converted from a Mark 1 Hurricane here is a list of the modification numbers on the mod plate and what they represent.
114 Martin Baker blast tube added
164 12 gun wing
172 long range fuel tanks
177 G22 camera removed
187 Minor COG changes
202 Large ammo box
249 wiring improvements

Can anyone throw any light as at some point this Hurricane would of had the shorter wing.

Just to add mod 164
Was related to structural reinforcing or internal changes to the fuselage / wing structure often associated with updating the earlier structure for high stress requirements or strengthening the under carriage attachment points.
This was done particularly around the time of the transition from Mk1 to Mk2.
Many thanks Brad.

 

[hawker.1966]

There was no such thing as a Hurricane extended wing modification, there was a 4 inch extension of the forward fuselage to handle the longer Merlin XX when it replaced the Merlin III.

Now we dive deep into the mysteries of Canadian Hawker Hurricane production, which were incomplete airframes when exported.

P5170 to P5209 (40 a/c)
T9519 to T9538 (20 a/c)
Z6983 to Z7162 (100 a/c)
AE958 to AE977 (20 a/c)
AF945 to AG344 (300 a/c) 30 to RCAF as 1351 to 1380, mark I fitted with Merlin III and propellers taken from Fairey Battles
AG665 to AG684 (20 a/c)
AM270 to AM369 (100 a/c) (AM270 became Dutch HC3-287)
AP138 (1 a/c, replacement for duplicate serial AM270 which was allocated to a Catalina)
BW835 to BX134 (200 a/c), with BW835 to BW884 (50 a/c) 50 Sea Hurricane I, mostly retained in Canada,
JS219 to JS468 (250 a/c)
RCAF 5376 to 5775 (400 a/c) 150 to RAF as PJ660 to PJ695, PJ711 to PJ758, PJ779 to PJ813 and PJ842 to PJ872.
Total 1,451

On 27 August 1941 Canada ordered 400 Hurricanes, 100 for the Netherlands East Indies, 300 for China, this changed to 72 for the Netherlands East Indies, 328 for the USSR, to use Merlin 28 and US built propellers and shipped across the Pacific. By the time production started in mid 1942 it was 400 for the RCAF, but in 1943 it was 250 RCAF and 150 RAF.

486 Mark I, all serials to AG340, then AG342, 343 and 344 and AG656 to 671. The rest had B wings, called mark II if fitted with Merlin XX, mark III if fitted with Merlin 28 (A few test flights only) or mark IIB(Can) then mark XII if fitted with Merlin 29. On arrival in Britain a number of mark II had C wings fitted. No Merlin 29 left Canada.

Canada paused production in August 1941 with 485 mark I built, the final mark I was built in October with mark II and Sea Hurricane production beginning in November. Britain records the arrival of 419 Hurricane I airframes to end August 1941, 8 more were lost at sea, 1 was a returning Hawker built Hurricane sent as a pattern aircraft, leaving 60 in Canada that were put into storage pending fitting of US built Merlins then to be used for training (AG287, 292 to 340, 342 to 344, 665 to 671). It was from these 60 that the RACF drew 30, while the remaining 30 were shipped to Britain where they were recorded as mark II, whether that was because they came with B wings or were reworked to full mark II status (fuselage extension, strengthened fuselage and wing center section) is unknown. As well what should have been the early mark II serials, the final AGxx and early AM serials, arrived in Britain starting 3 or so months after serials starting with AM297.

AG298, 301, 303, 320, 321, 324, 328, 329, 333, 336, 339, 343, 344, 665, 668 and 670 (16 a/c) were shipped to the USSR via Britain.

For details of them see production page 029

Survivors of RCAF Hurricane I and Sea Hurricane I were later fitted with Merlin 29 and called mark XIIA.

Yes sorry it wasn't the wing extension you are correct it was more to do with strengthening and possibly fuselage as below.

"Just to add mod 164
Was related to structural reinforcing or internal changes to the fuselage / wing structure (12 gun wing) often associated with updating the earlier structure for high stress requirements or strengthening the under carriage attachment points.
This was done particularly around the time of the transition from Mk1 to Mk2"

 

[hawker.1966]

Yes sorry it wasn't the wing extension you are correct it was more to do with strengthening and possibly fuselage as below.

"Just to add mod 164
Was related to structural reinforcing or internal changes to the fuselage / wing structure (12 gun wing) often associated with updating the earlier structure for high stress requirements or strengthening the under carriage attachment points.
This was done particularly around the time of the transition from Mk1 to Mk2"

Thank you by the way for such a detailed reply absolutely mind boggling.

 

[ThomasP]

FWIW

From primary sources:
Mods 103, 141(no P suffix), & 180 are included in Mk IIA/B/C airframe Mod lists
Mods 149 & 152 are included in the Mk IIA/B airframe Mod lists
Mods 172 & 187 are included in the Mk IIB/C airframe Mod lists

If my notes (from a secondary source) are correct then Mod 152 is part of the Mods necessary to install the larger radiator on the Mk II series aircraft - possibly specific to the new deeper radiator doghouse. This Mod was incorporated on the production line for new-build airframes, but could also be implemented at MU/MRUs, and was implemented on some SeaHurricane Mk Ib as well.

 

[Alex Smart]

My question is about those other numbers on the Modification Plate.
17,103,114,141P, 149,152,164,172,177,180,187,202,249.
What do these numbers represent ?

Of note 17, 152, 164, 187, 249, Sqdns all used Hurricane 's at some time.

Ship Navarino - PQ 12, BN461.
Ship Navarino - PQ 17, BP461.
Ship Empire Kinsman - JW 53 - Z2461.

Anyone know of a list of Contract Numbers ?
Maybe the so called serial number is just a Contact Number ?

Alex

 

[ThomasP]

The numbers on the modification plate should be Mod numbers, not Squadron numbers. When possible the Mod numbers were supposed to be stamped in sequence - left-to-right in rows and top-to-bottom in columns as if reading a book. I have seen several Mod plates where it was not possible to maintain this format, but most did for the most part. Sometimes Mods that were part of the same group (such as for Tropicalization) would have their own row or column - it seemed to depend on what space was available and who was doing the stamping. I have never seen an example where they used more than 1x Mod plate but have wondered if this ever happened.

BP461 was a Mk IIB shipped to Russia via S.92 as part of PQ.17, but it is listed as lost at sea en route to Archangel on 4Jul'42.
Z2461 was a Mk IIA converted to Mk IIC before shipping to Russia via S.131 as part of JW.53, arrived Murmansk 27Feb'43.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

If the dates the modifications were issued can be found it could narrow down the eligible Hurricanes.

I do not have Hawker or Gloster construction numbers, for CCF there is,
RCAF 5446-5485 = CCF Nos 46001 to 46040
RCAF 5486-5525 = CCF Nos 48001 to 48040
note the 2,000 number jump

I think the 46189 serial is actually for the modification plate.

 

[hawker.1966]

If the dates the modifications were issued can be found it could narrow down the eligible Hurricanes.

I do not have Hawker or Gloster construction numbers, for CCF there is,
RCAF 5446-5485 = CCF Nos 46001 to 46040
RCAF 5486-5525 = CCF Nos 48001 to 48040
note the 2,000 number jump

I think the 46189 serial is actually for the modification plate.

" think the 46189 serial is actually for the modification plate"

This would kind of make sense as if for some reason the mod plate was lost from the aircraft they could have all the modifications numbers recorded under the plates serial number as a main reference number hence 46189.
I've not really seen any other mod plates I take it that they had a serial no on the plate also.

Thank you again for the above replies intriguing.

 

[Crimea_River]

The Mosquito I'm helping to restore carries multiple mod plates. The plates themselves are also unique to major components like the wing, ailerons, and flaps. In some cases, the mod plates carry the serial number of our aircraft, RS700, and in others just a AS (assumed to be Airspeed) production number which varied, or both.