HD TV Debacle

Njaco said:

Ok, need some help with this.

I don't have cable. I refuse to contribute to a monopoly that keeps increasing rates and decreasing service. So I'm a rabbit-ear expert.

The other day I got a used TV for my daughter's room but I needed an antenna. Went to the local Target store to find one. When I couldn't, I asked an employee where they were. He showed me and proceeded to tell me that within a year they would obsolete and non-funtional.

Now I know Congress a year or two ago passed a law changing TV to HD but what I was told by that employee was that it would render the rabbit-ears ineffective and for anyone to get any TV channels they would have to subscribe to a cable channel or Satellite dish or FiOs type service - at extra cost.

Is this true? I know they were changing the TV types but wasn't aware that it involved taking away analog reception! How can they do this?

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Absolutely not true. I have a 56" HD Samsung. I use Dishnetwork for most of my viewing. However, I receive local channels via antenna in HD. I just switch back and forth between inputs.

I too am a cheap prick when it comes to HD. You know damn well that the cable/satellite companies are going to charge you extra to get HD even after the mandated conversion. Aholes.

Oh. And your TV WILL need an HD tuner. If not, your TV will recieve NOTHING. Maybe that's what the dude meant.

NTSC came out in 1953!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anybody who is resistant, put on your derby, jump in your horseless carriage and go down the general store. Instead of complaining by the pickle barrel, go over and check out the new TV's. You might be surprised how affordable they are!

NTSC came out in 1953!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy cow! At least the French have SECAM..

Are you saying you're pro-french?

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Njaco said:

I can't stand when it appears I'm being force-fed something while my pockets are robbed.

Oh for the days of coat-hangers and tin-foil.

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People were force fed automobiles when it became difficult to buy buggies too.

comiso90 said:

People were force fed automobiles when it became difficult to buy buggies too.

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I agree my satellite provider charges $43 a month including HD for about 150 channels its cheaper then cable
and in my case more reliable it's never gone down in precip or winds

Comiso, I don't mind paying for a HDTV. I have nothing against HD. Love to have it. It just seems to me that there is alot of sneaky back-room cr*p going on here. At my expense.

I just don't trust the government to play fair.

Comcast is the ONLY cable provider in this area. Now the government saw fit to deregulate the phone system but doesn't touch this? In fact it regulates it more by one sweep making obsolete millions of TVs? And I do know there is Satelite TV and others but.... You buy the TV, you but the satelite, you buy the service. It just smells of scam. Sure people are gonna want HD because of the oooh ahhh factor, but where is my choice? It seems like its been taken away.

Again I'm not clear on this whole thing and I may have an improper view of it. I'm not complaining except that the government should keep its fingers out of it. It feels like digital emminent domain.

Now I'll go back in my carriage.

It's VERY expensive to maintain both systems... it seems to me reasonable transition time is in place (in most areas). TV stations cannot be expected to maintain SDTV for ever.

As you touched on, the media monopolies are the real threat. The pipelines that feed us information are controlled by fewer and fewer people. That is not a good thing.

I don't believe HD or the implementation is a debacle... but the media monopolies are! That is a reality with or without HD.

Now to really piss you off... there are different types of HDTV! As far as I know there isnt a standard yet.

720,1080, 1024, 1280, 1920?





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Matt308 said:

Oh. And your TV WILL need an HD tuner. If not, your TV will recieve NOTHING. Maybe that's what the dude meant.

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No, they are working on converter boxes that will convert the HD signal to normal NTSC. See the article that I posted in this thread. It actually makes sense.

Cosimo, that may be what has me peeved. You are right about the monopolies.

Eric, I'm sure I won't find that converter box at the dollar store. I don't mind paying for an accessory, like an antenna but I can just see the price gouge on the public for this.

Oh, and Cosimo, the Amish still use buggys.

evangilder said:

No, they are working on converter boxes that will convert the HD signal to normal NTSC. See the article that I posted in this thread. It actually makes sense.

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That is true. But a NTSC analog TV will not work unless you PURCHASE said HD tuner. Thus my point is correct.

Oh. And to piss off the conservatives on this forum, the gov't is providing $40 per household subsidy for individuals to purchase these off-board tuners.

Njaco said:

Cosimo, that may be what has me peeved. You are right about the monopolies.

Eric, I'm sure I won't find that converter box at the dollar store. I don't mind paying for an accessory, like an antenna but I can just see the price gouge on the public for this.

Oh, and Cosimo, the Amish still use buggys.

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You know you don't have to watch TV, Njaco. Criminy, what size analog TV do you currently have. You've had over 15 years to prepare for the change. Assuming you have about the biggest analog TV every produced (40"), you can get a 720p 40"HDTV for about $800. And if you go smaller (32") you can get them for $400. Sheesh. If you had been saving your money all this time thats saving about $0.50 a week. Suck it up, Bubba.

Sorry, Matt. Maybe I'm not stating myself clearly because I clearly don't understand. Maybe if I start over.

I can get a HD TV. No prob. But is that it? Do I have to have Cable or Satelite or some type of service even to watch it? I hear about converter boxes, etc.

I am dense when it comes to this sh*t. Sorry.

Some of my post was wrong..

The US will experience a MANDITORY shut off for Analog TV feb 17, 2009..
I thought there was a peroiod in which there would be simutainious broadcast..

wiki:

* n the United States, all U.S. television broadcasts will be exclusively digital as of February 17, 2009, by order of the Federal Communications Commission. This deadline was signed into law in early 2006.[15] Furthermore, as of March 1, 2007, all new television sets that can receive signals over-the-air, including pocket-sized portable televisions, must include digital or HDTV tuners so they can receive digital broadcasts.[16] Currently, most U.S. broadcasters are transmitting their signals in both analog and digital formats; a few are digital-only. Citing the bandwidth efficiency of digital TV, after the analog switch-off, the FCC will auction off channels 52–59 (the lower half of the 700 MHz band) for other communications traffic,[17] completing the reallocation of broadcast channels 52–69 that began in the late 1990s. The FCC is also planning to abandon the channels 2-6 (54-72/76-88 MHz) for broadcast television in the near future[citation needed].

The analog switch-off ruling, which so far has met with little opposition from consumers or manufacturers, would render all non-digital televisions obsolete on the switch-off date, unless connected to an external off-the-air tuner, analog or digital cable, or a satellite system. The FCC has determined that an external converter box (an ATSC tuner) can be added to non-digital televisions to lengthen their useful lifespan. Several of these devices have already been shown, and industry and government statements predict that low-cost units will be available in January 2008.[18] At that same time, the U.S. government will take requests from households for up to two coupons to reduce the price of specified converter boxes by $40.[19] Some existing analog equipment will be less functional with the use of a converter box. For example, television remote controls will no longer be effective at changing channels, because that function will instead be handled by the converter box. Similarly, video recorders for analog signals (including both tape-based VCRs and hard-drive-based DVRs) will not be able to select channels, limiting their ability to automatically record programs via a timer or based on downloaded program information.

Digital television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Njaco said:

Sorry, Matt. Maybe I'm not stating myself clearly because I clearly don't understand. Maybe if I start over.

I can get a HD TV. No prob. But is that it? Do I have to have Cable or Satelite or some type of service even to watch it? I hear about converter boxes, etc.

I am dense when it comes to this sh*t. Sorry.

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Okay here is the short course. And believe me, I can understand why you are confused.

Buy an HDTV (with built in tuner) - You can buy HD "capable" TVs with no HD tuner. However, these are so rare anymore as to be non-existent. I have not seen an HDTV that does not include an HD tuner in years. So don't worry about it.

Signal -

If you are currently using an antenna and get good reception on all your important channels, you are probably fine to receive HD on those same channels once they broadcast in HD (as noted all will broadcast HD by law in 2009). All HDTVs that I have seen also tune analog stations. So during that time during the analog-to-digital transition, you can receive either format. Most all HDTVs are smart enough to scan the spectrum, find the good channels and inform you of them, irrespective of whether they are currently analog or HD.

Poor Reception -

With your current analog set using an antenna, a poor signal is typically still discernible, but with perhaps snow or blurring. With HD, this is no longer the case. With digital, you are in the "either your get it, or you don't" world of reception. A marginal signal will either result in a blank screen, perfect video with audio drops, or periodic drops of video and audio. Think start stops. This is the downfall of HD over an antenna if the signal strength isn't high enough. It will drive you friggin' crazy. Your current TV will just blur a little or you might hear white noise in the audio or both. Not so with HD. Cable and Satellite hook up is by far the best bet and allow you to take the digital signal directly from the cable/satellite box directly into your TV via a digital (HDMI) link.

Now you have options for your antenna 'type', but as always the 75ohm outdoor roof antenna will likely give you the best HD reception. New HDTVs don't use rabbit ears, though some may have screw terminal connections. We're in the next century now. And best I can tell antennas that are marketed as HDTV antennas are no different than any other antenna of equal size/location. That appears to be a marketing ploy so don't pay more for one.

Format -

For simplicity, current HDTVs at your local Circuit City come in 720p (progressive scanning) and 1020i (interlaced). The 720p is less expensive and given everything else is equal results in a GREAT picture, but some fast movement (like sports) does have some discernable blurring where there is movement. However, coming from an analog set, you won't be able to spot it unless someone demos a 1020i right next to the 720p. The 1020i is more expensive, but that would be my choice.

The differences between projection (Digital Light Processing DLP), LCD and Plasma can be subtle to VERY significant. Traditionally DLP is least expensive. LCD in the middle. And plasma the most expensive. There are exceptions and it is not necessarily one format being better than others. It depends upon the HDTV and the price point. When in doubt, trust your eyes.

Screen Glare -

This is a big deal if you have a bright room. Especially if you get a big TV. My buddy has a 63" Mitsubishi that is (in my opinion) virtually unwatchable in his room in any light whatsoever. His TV is a few years old and the screen coatings are much better nowadays. Some VERY good HDTVs have high gloss screens. These reflect the most, but in my opinion give the sharpest pics. However, the anti-glare screens are a close second and these would be my choice. Take a small flashlight with you and shine it on the active screen during the demo. Some TVs will reflect like a mirror and others you will hardly be able to see it.

Next week... surround sound!

TY, TY, TY! Now I have a better grasp of it. I thought they were forceing me to spend much more beyond the TV set for this. Ok, so in about year or so my TV must be HD acceptable and then I have to frig around with the best way for reception.

Thanks.

Now, is that true surround-sound?

Njaco said:

Now, is that true surround-sound?

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Don't encourage him, Comiso.

Well.. we did our best to talk him back from the edge... I'm not sure it worked!

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Sure you have other connections Cosimo as you mentioned but HDMI is the only way to go. If you want a $13.00 cable go for it, I dumped 11k into a system and since I paid that much I'm not giving cheap cables a chance to compromise picture quality. Also as far as the Monster a/c box it will reimburse my equipment if it does not protect my stuff from lightning, surges etc...To each his own.

If you spent 11K on a system, why were you beefing?

The point is that you didnt have to.. it was a decision. and it sounds like you made a good decision. You wouldn't pout cheap 18 inch tires on a Ferrari.... but you probably could!

I have a system worth 8K and I bought medium quality cables and stuff.