He.177 combat history

I agree with riacrato in his statistical analyze.

Juha

I didn't say that after 10 missions your are dead. It could be the new replacement that get's it. It could be one of the other veterans, or it could be you. But no unit can exist for very long with a well trained veteran core with a 10% lose per mission.

IIRC British thought that 3% loss rate was the max sustainable at long run.

Juha

riacrato said:

I'm pretty sure my math is right.

Click to expand...

It is.

Jagdgeschwader 26 lost 701 pilots in combat (killed, missing, or taken prisoner.)

As for the bombers, it depended on the time period.

Average Probability of Survival over the whole war, 1939-1945.

40 Survived Unharmed
7 Survived but were wounded
8 Survived but were taken Prisoners of War
38 Killed in Action, or Missing presumed killed
7 Killed in Crashes and Accidents

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r_m_g.varley/Strategic_Air_Offensive.pdf

fastmongrel said:

The SC2500 is made of aluminium according to the link you posted so presumably it was a blast bomb. The British HC 4,000lb cookie is probably the equivalent.

Click to expand...

It is listed as a GP bomb. So its closest equivalent would be the 4000lb MC bomb.

We could equally have said the SB2500, which is similar in size to the SC2500, but is made from steel and is an armour piercing bomb. I don'tthink the RAF had an equivalent AP bomb of that weight range.

Those interested in the Heinkel 177 would do well to pick up a copy of this book.



A bigger comedy of errors would be difficult to imagine....

wuzak said:

It would have been interesting to see what the He177 would have been capable of doing had more reliable engines been available.

Unfortunately the alternative engines weren't going so well either. The Jumo 222 was also unreliable and never made it to production, The DB604 was less powerful, and cancelled. The DB603 was less powerful and running late.

Click to expand...

It wasn't the engines at fault it was their installation that caused the problems....examine the history of other aircraft with the DB606 or DB610 installed properly.

Juha said:

I agree with riacrato in his statistical analyze.

Juha

Click to expand...

Ditto.

tyrodtom said:

I don't follow your math. but a 1 in three chanch of surviveing 10 missions are not good odds.

Click to expand...

If you think that is bad, think about 25 missions! Not a lot of optimism in the bomber ranks, at least until the P-51B arrived.

All this information is really helpful towards refining my view of the He.177. I still need to know two things. How many 177s(including all variants) were built? Wiki says the number built was 1,169(originally i said 1,770 but i must have mixed up the digits from 1,170), but some of you have suggested a number around 900. Second, was the 177 successful in regards as a carrier for the Henschel 293 anti-ship missile and the Fritz X glide bomb?

And a second thought: was the He.177 well-armored compared to bombers like the S.79, He.111, and Ju.88? like was it fairly protected against heavy caliber machine guns like the .50cal M2?

Dressel/Griehl Heinkel Heinkel He177,277,274

Note this: not a lot of engine trouble as direct known course.

*He 177A-ls known to have been converted to A-3s.
NB: This list does not cover all He 177s build

AA Anti-Aircraft (fire)
CTO Crashed an Take-Off
DLH Deutsche Luft Hansa
DWT Damaged White Taxying
EA Enemy Action
EF Engine Failure
EHAG Ernst Heinkel AG
EK Erprobungskonnuanclo (Proving/Test Command)
FlUGr Flugzeugüberführungsgruppe (Aircraft Ferry Group)
PE Pilot Error
MIA Missing In Action
TOA Take-Off Accident
TS Technische Schule (Technical School)
U/C Undercarriage

332217 A-3 5J+HL 24-1-1944 3./KG100 AA kill
332355 A-3 6N+GK Unknown 2./KG100 AA kill
550074 A-5 KM+UX 10-6-1944 5./KG40 AA kill
535457 A-3 GJ+RQ 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
535732 A-3 CJ+FF 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
535854 A-3 GR+ML 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
535868 A-3 GR+MY 27-3-1944 I1/KG40 Air raid
550048 A-5 KM+TX 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
550052 A-5 KM+UB 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
550065 A-5 KM+UO 21-3-1944 5./KG40 Air raid
550069 A-5 KM+US 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
550071 A-5 KM+UU 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
550073 A-5 KM+UW 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
550081 A-5 ??+?? 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Air raid
550084 A-5 ??+?? 27-3-1944 Unknown Air raid
550157 A-5 ??+?? ??/05/44 II/KG40 Air raid
6 V6 BC+BP 28-6-1943 6thprototype Belly-landed
332484 A-3 ??+?? 5-4-1944 I/KG1 Belly-landed
535575 A-3 ??+?? 23-1-1944 II/KG40 Belly-landed
535740 A-3 CJ+FN 20-2-1944 II/KG40 Belly-landed
535749 A-3 CJ+FW 24-3-1944 I/KG100 Belly-landed
550061 A-5 KM+UK Unknown II/KG40 Blown up
550147 A-5 F8+LP ??/08/44 11/KG40 Blown up
550149 A-5 ??+?? ??/08/44 II/KG40 Blown up
550155 A-5 ??+?? ??/08/44 II/KG40 Blown up
550202 A-5 F8+KH ??/08/44 V31,II/KG40 Blown up
550220 A-5 ??+?? ??/08/44 11/KG40 Blown up
550225 A-5 ??+?? ??/08/44 II/KG40 Blown up
22 A-07 GA+QP 10-2-1942 ESt177 Burned out
15155 A-1 GI+BP ??/05/43 V29(guntrials) Burned out
24 A-09 GA+QR 20-6-1944 V10 Cannibalised
550003 A-5 KM+TC 22-2-1944 4./KG100 Collided
332146 A-3 VD+XV 15-6-1944 5./KG1 Collision
1 V1 CB+RP 3-10-1941 lstprototype Crashed
2 V2 CB+RQ 27-6-1940 2ndprototype Crashed
3 V3 D-AGIG 24-4-1940 3rdprototype Crashed
19 A-04 GA+QM 24-4-1943 V26,KdE Crashed
28 A-013 GA+QV 16-7-1942 ESt177 Crashed
15161 A-1 GI+BV 2-9-1942 Long-range recce Crashed
15164 A-1 GI+BY 23-5-1942 KG100 Crashed
15180 A-1 BL+FJ 29-1-1943 I/FKG50 Crashed
15191 A-1* BL+FU 2-2-1943 DVL,trials Crashed
15197 A-1 DH+CW 15-3-1944 2./KG1 Crashed
15199 A-1* DH+CY ??/05/43 I/KG1 Crashed
15203 A-1* V4+UC 5-4-1944 V27,1./KG1 Crashed
15207 A-1 VE+UG 23-11-1943 IV/KG40 Crashed
15215 A-1 VE+UO 21-12-1942 ESt177 Crashed
15250 A-1 VD+HY Unknown Unknown Crashed
15252 A-1* E8+FK 13-1-1943 I/FKG50 Crashed
15263 A-1 VF+RM 27-1-1943 I/FKG50 Crashed
332101 A-1" VF+QA 13-11-1943 V19(DB610s) Crashed
135006 A-3 ND+SA 15-6-1944 FFS(B)16 Crashed
135010 A-3 ND+SE 2-6-1944 ESt177 Crashed
332198 A-3 5J+DL 22-1-1944 3./KG100 Crashed
332204 A-3 5J+AK 15-11-1943 3./KG100 Crashed
332212 A-3 5J+NK 8-1-1944 2./KG100 Crashed
332216 A-3 ??+?? 2-1-1944 I/KG40 Crashed
332235 A-3 6N+HK 22-4-1944 2./KG100 Crashed
332241 A-3 SL+WW 28-1-1944 I/KG100 Crashed
332251 A-3 5J+DH 18-2-1944 I/KG100 Crashed
332394 A-3 6N+BM 8-5-1944 I/KG100 Crashed
332471 A-3 V4+GH 20-3-1944 I/KG1 Crashed
332475 A-3 V4+FL 1-4-1944 3./KG1 Crashed
332495 A-3 V4+JS 1-8-1944 8./KG1 Crashed
332507 A-3 DW+CK 30-4-1944 1/KG100 Crashed
332518 A-3 DW+CV 15-6-1944 4./KG1 Crashed
332555 A-3 ??+?? 25-2-1944 I/KG100 Crashed
335003 A-3 ??+?? Unknown DBtrials Crashed
535460 A-3 GJ+RS 23-1-1944 II/KG40 Crashed
535680 A-3 F8+LH 29-2-1944 I/KG40 Crashed
535683 A-3 ??+?? 21-11-1943 II/KG40 Crashed
535745 A-3 CJ+FS 21-1-1944 1./KG40 Crashed
535755 A-3 ??+?? 28-11-1944 EK36 Crashed
535848 A-3 6N+AU 27-5-1944 10./KG100 Crashed
535670 A-3 F8+SK 9-6-1944 2./KG40 Crashed (EA) Dressel/Griehl are wrong its the 10-6-44 Airwar ww2 The Pilots.
20 A-05 GA+QN 13-6-1942 KdE Crashed (EF)
26 A-011 GA+QT 17-2-1942 KdE Crashed (EF)
15247 A-1 VD+UV Unknown I/FKG50,I/KG40 Crashed (EF)
15269 A-1 VF+RR 23-1-1943 I/KG40 Crashed (EF)
535446 A-3 GJ+RH 15-9-1943 KdE Crashed (EF)
535730 A-3 CJ+FD 22-1-1944 I/KG40 Crashed (EF)
550079 A-5 F8+FM 2-5-1944 4./KG40 Crashed (EF)
550142 A-5 ??+?? ??/05/44 II/KG40 Crashed (icing)
15259 A-1 VF+RI 28-11-1942 I/KG40 Crashed (PE)
535694 A-3 F8+GH 3-5-1944 1./KG40 Crashed (PE)
535748 A-3 CJ+FV 29-1-1944 1./KG40 Crashed (PE)
550141 A-5 6N+BC 14-5-1944 11/KG100 Crashed (PE)
15220 A-1 VE+UT 5-7-1943 Unknown Crash-landed
15230 A-1 VD+UE Unknown I/FKG50 Crash-landed
15278 A-1 BF+TC 12-6-1944 FFS(B)31 Crash-landed
332121 A-1" ??+?? 1-2-1944 V36,KdE Crash-landed
332154 A-3 ??+?? 22-4-1944 12./KG100 Crash-landed
332157 A-3 ??+?? Unknown I/KG1 Crash-landed
332203 A-3 ??+?? 14-11-1943 III/KG100 Crash-landed
332225 A-3 5J+VL 21-1-1944 2./KG40 Crash-landed
535371 A-3 GP+WV 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Crash-landed
535533 A-3 NN+QA ??/01/44 11/KG40 Crash-landed
535549 A-3 NN+QP 14-1-1944 KdE Crash-landed
535554 A-3 NN+QU 17-12-1943 II/KG40 Crash-landed

part 2

535559 A-3 NN+QY 28-12-1943 II/KG40 Crash-landed
550031 A-5 6N+LM 15-5-1944 4./KG100 Crash-landed
550082 A-5 ??+?? ??/06/44 I/KG40 Crash-landed
550258 A-5 6N+MP 27-7-1944 6./KG100 Crash-landed
135016 A-3 ND+SK 28-6-1943 ESt177 CTO
332540 A-3 V4+HL 18-7-1944 3./KG1 CTO
550257 A-5 GM+DA 7-7-1944 6./KG40 CTO
27 A-012 GA+QU 14-10-1942 ESt177 Damaged
35 A-020 ??+?? 16-4-1942 ESt177 Damaged
32001 A-0 DR+IJ Unknown EHAG Damaged
32003 A-0 DR+IL 6-11-1942 IV/KG40 Damaged
32012 A-0 DR+IT Unknown IV/KG40 Damaged
332200 A-3 ??+?? 21-3-1944 I/KG100 Damaged
550006 A-5 6N+DM 9-5-1944 4./KG100 Darnaged
550153 A-5 ??+?? 24-5-1944 II/KG40 Ditched
332193 A-3 ??+?? ??/01/44 I/KG40 DWT
332218 A-3 ??+?? ??/01/44 I/KG40 DWT
335002 A-3 ??+?? Unknown TS2 DWT
535692 A-3 ??+?? 24-3-1944 II/KG40 DWT
550041 A-5 KM+TQ Unknown II/KG40 DWT
15240 A-1 VD+UO 28-1-1943 I/FKG50 Enemy action
15242 A-1 VD+UQ 17-1-1943 I/FKG50 Enemy action
15256 A-1 VF+RF 21-2-1944 EK25 Enemy action
15262 A-1 VF+RL 21-2-1944 EK25 Enemy action
332195 A-3 ??+?? 5-3-1944 II/KG40 Enemy action
332229 A-3 V4+PT 28-7-1944 9./KG1 Enemy action
332351 A-3 V4+CN 28-7-1944 8.KG1 Enemy action
332364 A-3 KP+PN 21-5-1944 I/KG1 Enemy action
535448 A-3 GJ+RJ 23-1-1944 II/KG40 Enemy action
535555 A-3 NN+QV 23-1-1944 II/KG40 Enemy action
535562 A-3 F8+LM 24-12-1943 II/KG40 Enemy action
535747 A-3 F8+HH 21-1-1944 I/KG40 Enemy action
550034 A-5 6N+FM 17-5-1944 4./KG100 Enemy action
550087 A-5 ??+?? 14-6-1944 6./KG40 Enemy action
550255 A-5 GP+RX 5-7-1944 6./KG40 Enemy action
21 A-06 GA+QO 20-2-1942 KdE Engine failure
15171 A-1 BL+FA 15-5-1943 KdE,ESt177 Engine failure
15172 A-1 BL+FB 14-4-1942 Arado Engine failure
15275 A-1 VF+RX 7-5-1944 11./KG40 Engine failure
15280 A-1 5J+EH 21-11-1943 1./KG4 Engine failure
332104 A-1" VF+QD 12-1-1943 V22,KdE(to Engine failure
332110 A-1 VF+QJ 30-1-1943 Unknown Engine failure
332366 A-3 V4+EN 27-6-1944 5./KG1 Engine failure
332474 A-3 V4+LP 27-6-1944 6./KG1 Engine failure
332477 A-3 ??+?? 8-4-1944 I/KG1 Engine failure
332497 A-3 V4+HS 26-6-1944 8./KG1 Engine failure
332536 A-3 ??+?? 10-6-1944 I/KG1 Engine failure
332610 A-3 V4+IN 28-7-1944 5./KG1 Engine failure
550191 A-5 F8+BB 23-5-1944 I/KG40 Engine failure
15154 A-1 GI+BO 8-2-1942 KdE Engine fire
15271 A-1 VF+RT ??/06/44 DLH Engine fire
332201 A-3 ??+?? 30-1-1944 I/KG100 Engine fire
332209 A-3 ??+?? 30-1-1944 I/KG100 Engine fire
535445 A-3 GJ+RG 21-11-1943 II/KG40 Engine fire
535556 A-3 NN+QW 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Engine fire
332189 A-3 5J+AL 25-2-1944 3./KG100 Fighter kill
332214 A-3 5J+RL 5-3-1944 3./KG100 Fighter kill
332224 A-3 6N+TL 22-3-1944 I/KG100 Fighter kill
332232 A-3 TM+IO 5-1-1944 2./KG40 Fighter kill
535459 A-3 F8+LK 8-4-1944 2./KG40 Fighter kill
535695 A-3 ??+?? ??/02/44 II/KG40 Fighter kill
535696 A-3 ??+?? 23-11-1944 II/KG40 Fighter kill
550067 A-5 F8+BN 10-6-1944 4./KG40 Fighter kill
550173 A-5 ??+?? 9-7-1944 4./KG40 Fighter kill
550198 A-5 F8+BK 7-6-1944 2./KG40 Fighter kill
550204 A-5 F8+FK 7-6-1944 2./KG40 Fighter kill
535672 A-3 ??+?? 25-12-1943 II/KG40 Fighter victory
535862 A-3 GR+MT 10-3-1944 10./KG100 Flying accident
15258 A-1 5J+CK 23-10-1943 I/KG100 Force-landed
332143 A-3 VD+XS 21-12-1943 4./KG100 Force-landed
332147 A-3 V4+IV 26-6-1944 10./KG1 Force-landed
332210 A-3 5J+IL 20-2-1944 3./KG100 Force-landed
332220 A-3 5J+IH 4-2-1944 I/KG100 Force-landed
535436 A-3 GP+WX 15-3-1944 12./KG100 Force-landed
535442 A-3 GJ+RD 10-11-1943 II/KG40 Force-landed
535794 A-3 ??+?? 25-3-1944 I/KG40 Force-landed
4 V4 ??+?? 8-6-1941 4thprototype Ground contact
332407 A-3 ??+?? 16-4-1944 10./KG100 Ground contact
332511 A-3 V4+BK 29-4-1944 2./KG1 Ground contact
332543 A-3 V4+KL 28-6-1944 3./KG1 Ground contact
335001 A-3 ??+?? 24-6-1944 V15 Ground contact
332410 A-3 ??+?? 13-4-1944 I/KG1 Instrument failure
32 A-017 GA+QZ 6-5-1942 ESt177 Landing accident
15225 A-1 VE+UY Unknown I/FKG50 Landing accident
15241 A-1* VD+UP 20-1-1943 I/FKG50 Landing accident
332401 A-3 ??+?? 16-4-1944 I/KG1 Landing accident
535551 A-3 NN+QR 21-11-1943 II/KG40 Landing accident
535553 A-3 NN+QT 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Landing accident
15233 A-1* E8+FH 16-1-1943 I/FKG50 MIA
332206 A-3 5J+KK 2-3-1943 2./KG100 MIA
332227 A-3 5J+QL 22-2-1944 3./KG100 MIA
535447 A-3 F8+EN 23-1-1944 5./KG40 MIA
535557 A-3 F8+IN 28-12-1943 5./KG40 MIA
535569 A-3 ??+?? ??/01/44 II/KG40 MIA
535731 A-3 F8+LK 8-6-1944 2./KG40 MIA
535735 A-3 CJ+FI 23-1-1944 II/KG40 MIA
535741 A-3 CJ+FO 21-1-1944 1./KG40 MIA
550080 A-5 ??+?? 14-6-1944 4./KG40 MIA
550117 A-5 F8+HN 7-6-1944 5./KG40 MIA
550175 A-5 F8+11-1 10-6-1944 1./KG40 MIA
550197 A-5 F8+KK 8-6-1944 2./KG40 MIA
550199 A-5 F8+DH 10-6-1944 1./KG40 MIA
550206 A-5 F8+MH 7-6-1944 1./KG40 MIA
550210 A-5 ??+?? 5-7-1944 4./KG40 MIA
550211 A-5 F8+MK 8-6-1944 2./KG40 MIA
550215 A-5 F8+FH 13-6-1944 1./KG40 MIA
535679 A-3 F8+PN 12-2-1944 5./KG40 Night-fighter kill
535743 A-3 CJ+FQ 21-1-1944 1./KG40 Night-fighter kill
550068 A-5 KM+UR 27-3-1944 II/KG40 Night-Fighter kill
550083 A-5 ??+?? 8-6-1944 6./KG40 Night-fighter kill
550098 A-5 ??+?? 14-6-1944 4./KG40 Night-fighter kill
550195 A-5 ??+?? 5-7-1944 6./KG40 Night-fighter kill
550203 A-5 TM+IG 5-7-1944 6./KG40 Night-fighter kill
332222 A-3 5J+PK 24-2-1944 2./KG100 Operational loss
332231 A-3 5J+ZL 22-1-1944 2./KG40 Operational loss
332357 A-3 6N+IK 20-4-1944 2./KG100 Operational loss
332375 A-3 6N+OK 19-3-1944 2./KG100 Operational loss
332379 A-3 6N+AK 19-4-1944 2./KG100 Operational loss
332506 A-3 ??+?? 26-4-1944 3./KG100 Operational loss
535367 A-3 F8+KM 26-11-1943 4./KG40 Operational loss
535369 A-3 F8+MM 26-11-1943 4./KG40 Operational loss
535443 A-3 F8+BN 21-11-1943 5./KG40 Operational loss
535444 A-3 F8+EP 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Operational loss
535566 A-3 F8+IM 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Operational loss
535677 A-3 F8+DM 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Operational loss
535684 A-3 F8+BP 26-11-1943 II/KG40 Operational loss
15229 A-1 VD+UD ??/05/43 Trainer Pilot error
332408 A-3 ??+?? 10-5-1944 I/KG1 Pilot error
332478 A-3 ??+?? 17-4-1944 I/KG1 Pilot error
332538 A-3 ??+?? 23-5-1944 I/KG1 Pilot error
332546 A-3 ??+?? 5-6-1944 I/KG1 Pilot error
535365 A-3 GP+WO 23-8-1943 KdE Pilot error
535439 A-3 GJ+RA ??/01/44 II/KG40 Pilot error
332221 A-3 ??+?? 21-1-1944 I/KG100 Propeller ciamage
550002 A-5 KM+TB 8-5-1945 V38,KdE Remains at Prague-Rusiye
23 A-08 GA+QQ 28-6-1943 V9,V102 Scrapped
31 A-016 GA+QY Unknown EHAG Scrapped
535550 A-3 NN+QQ 30-8-1944 V101(B-5) Scrapped
550036 A-5 KM+TL 26-6-1944 V103,KdE Scrapped
16 A-01 DL+AP 8-7-1941 EHAG TOA
29 A-014 GA+QW 4-7-1942 ESt177 TOA
15208 A-1 VE+UH 3-4-1943 4./KG1 TOA
34 A-019 ??+?? 16-4-1942 KdE Total loss
15157 A-1 GI+BR 9-10-1943 Zerstörer Total loss
15214 A-1 VE+UN 28-5-1943 KdE Total loss
15231 A-1 VD+UF 13-11-1942 KdE Total loss
15232 A-1 VD+UG 14-11-1942 KdE Total loss
332109 A-1 VF+QI 2-6-1943 Unknown Total loss
535560 A-3 NN+QZ 21-1-1944 I/KG100 Total loss
332539 A-3 ??+?? 15-5-1955 1/KG1 Tyre defects
332187 A-3 ??+?? ??/01/44 I/KG40 U/C failure
332389 A-3 ??+?? 10-5-1944 I/KG1 U/C failure
535438 A-3 GP+WZ ??/01/44 II/KG40 U/C failure
535561 A-3 ??+?? ??/01/44 II/KG40 U/C failure
550056 A-5 KM+UF ??/05/44 II/KG40 U/C failure
550086 A-5 ??+?? ??/06/44 II/KG40 U/C failure
7 V7 SF+TB 28-6-1943 7thprototype Unknown
8 V8 SF+TC 28-6-1943 8thprototype Unknown
17 A-02 DL+AQ 28-6-1943 KdE Unknown
18 A-03 DL+AR 12-11-1941 EHAG,KdE Unknown
25 A-010 GA+QS 26-6-1944 V11 Unknown
30 A-015 GA+QX 28-6-1943 V18(Zerstörer) Unknown
33 A-018 ??+?? 15-4-1942 EHAG Unknown
32002 A-0 DR+IK 17-8-1943 11./KG40 Unknown
32004 A-0 F8+DV 3-2-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
32011 A-0 DR+IS 30-11-1943 KdE Unknown
15151 A-1 GI+BL 22-7-1943 V12(armament) Unknown
15152 A-1 GI+BM ??/05/43 V14(Kehl111) Unknown
15153 A-1 GI+BN 28-4-1944 V25,ESt177 Unknown
15156 A-1 GI+BQ ??/05/43 I/FKG50 Unknown
15159 A-1 GI+BT ??/05/43 2ndKehlIIIa/c Unknown
15160 A-1 Gl+BU ??/05/43 Zerstörer Unknown
15162 A-1 GI+BW 28-5-1943 3rdKehlIIIa/c Unknown
15163 A-1 GI+BX ??/05/43 Zerstörer Unknown
15165 A-1 GI+BZ ??/05/43 Zerstörer Unknown
15166 A-1 ??+?? Unknown I/KG40 Unknown
15167 A-1 ??+?? Unknown I/KG40 Unknown
15168 A-1 ??+?? ??/05/43 I/KG40 Unknown
15169 A-1 ??+?? ??/05/43 KG100 Unknown
15170 A-1 ??+?? ??/05/43 Zerstörer Unknown
15173 A-1 BL+FC ??/06/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15174 A-1 BL+FD Unknown Kehltrainer Unknown
15175 A-1 BL+FH 15-7-1943 I/KG40 Unknown
15176 A-1 BL+FF Unknown Kehltrainer Unknown
15177 A-1 BL+FG Unknown TS2 Unknown
15178 A-1 BL+FH Unknown I/KG40 Unknown
15179 A-1 BL+FI ??/05/43 Zerstörer Unknown
15181 A-1 BL+FK Unknown Kehltrainer Unknown
15182 A-1 BL+FL Unknown I/KG40 Unknown
15183 A-1 BL+FM ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15184 A-1 BL+FN ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15185 A-1 BL+FO ??//43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15186 A-1 BL+FP ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15187 A-1 BL+FQ ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15188 A-1 BL+FR ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15189 A-1 BL+FS ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15190 A-1 BL+FT 8-2-1942 KdE,trials Unknown
15192 A-1 BL+FV 14-5-1943 DB,trials Unknown
15193 A-1 BL+FW ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15194 A-1 BL+FX ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown

15195 A-1 BL+FY 25-1-1943 KdE,trials Unknown
15196 A-1 BL+FZ ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15198 A-1 DH+CX ??/05/43 I/KG1 Unknown
15200 A-1 DH+CZ ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15201 A-1 VE+UA ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15202 A-1 VE+UB ??/02/44 II/KG40 Unknown
15204 A-1 VE+UD ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15205 A-1 VE+UE ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15206 A-1 VE+UF ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15209 A-1 VE+UI ??/05/43 Kehltrainer Unknown
15210 A-1 VE+UJ Unknown Long-rangerecce Unknown
15211 A-1 VE+UK Unknown Long-rangerecce Unknown
15212 A-1 VE+UL Unknown Long-rangerecce Unknown
15213 A-1 VE+UM Unknown ESt177 Unknown
15217 A-1 VE+UQ ??/05/43 KdE,Rechlin Unknown
15218 A-1 VE+UR 14-1-1943 KdE,DBtrials Unknown
15219 A-1 VE+US Unknown KdE,trials Unknown
15221 A-1 VE+UU Unknown EHAG,I/KG40 Unknown
15222 A-1 VE+UV 10-4-1944 I/FKG50,FFS(B)15 Unknown
15223 A-1 VE+UW Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15224 A-1 VE+UX Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15226 A-1 VD+UA 24-6-1944 FFS(B)31 Unknown
15227 A-1 VD+UB ??/05/43 Trainer Unknown
15228 A-1 VD+UC ??/06/43 KdE Unknown
15234 A-1 VD+Ul Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15235 A-1 VD+UJ Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15236 A-1 VD+UK 30-1-1943 I/FKG50 Unknown
15237 A-1 VD+UL Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15238 A-1 VD+UM Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15239 A-1 VD+UN Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15243 A-1 VD+UR Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15244 A-1 VD+US 26-6-1943 ESt177,I/FKG50 Unknown
15245 A-1 VD+UT ??/05/43 I/FKG50 Unknown
15246 A-1 VD+UU ??/05/43 I/FKG50 Unknown
15248 A-1 F8+HU Unknown 10./KG40 Unknown
15249 A-1 VD+HX Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15251 A-1 VF+RA Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15253 A-1* VF+RC ??/05/43 Trainer Unknown
15254 A-1* VF+RD 11-2-1944 V20,DVL Unknown
15255 A-1 VF+RE ??/05/43 I/KG4 Unknown
15257 A-1 VF+RG Unknown I/FKG50 Unknown
15260 A-1 VF+RJ! ??/05/43 FFS(B)16 Unknown
15261 A-1 VF+RK ??/05/43 I/KG4 Unknown
15264 A-1 VF+RN ??/05/43 I/KG40 Unknown
15265 A-1 VF+RO 12-8-1943 I/KG40 Unknown
15266 A-1 VF+RP ??/05/43 Trainer Unknown
15267 A-1 VF+RQ Unknown Trainer Unknown
15270 A-1 VF+RS ??/05/43 Trainer Unknown
15272 A-1 VF+RU 2-5-1944 I/FKG50,FFS(B)31 Unknown
15273 A-1 VF+RV ??/05/43 FFS(B)31 Unknown
15274 A-1 F8+OV 24-4-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
15276 A-1 F8+NV 2-4-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
15277 A-1 BF+TB Unknown KdE(A-3pattern) Unknown
15279 A-1 BF+TD ??/05/43 I/KG40 Unknown
332102 A-1* VF+QB 2-3-1944 V21(Kehl) Unknown
332103 A-1 VF+QC 5-5-1943 lstKehla/c Unknown
332106 A-1 VF+QF ??/01/43 EHAG Unknown
332111 A-1 VF+QK 18-4-1944 F1UGr1 Unknown
332112 A-1* VF+QL ??/06/44 V23(DB610s) Unknown
135007 A-3 ND+SB Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135008 A-3 ND+SC 28-1-1943 ESt177 Unknown
1350(19 A-3 ND+SD Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135011 A-3 ND+SF Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135012 A-3 ND+SG Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135013 A-3 ND+SH Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135014 A-3 ND+SI Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135015 A-3 ND+SJ Unknown Luftwaffe Unknown
135018 A-3 ND+SM Unknown V30 Unknown
135020 A-3 ND+SO Unknown LTtrials Unknown
135024 A-3 ND+SS 6-11-1943 V24,KdE Unknown
332169 A-3 ??+?? 22-1-1944 I/KG100 Unknown
332226 A-3 ??+?? 22-12-1943 I/KG100 Unknown
332230 A-3 6N+WL ??/10/44 3./KG100 Unknown
332365 A-3 KP+PO 21-3-1944 I/KG100 Unknown
332367 A-3 KP+PQ ??/10/44 2./KG100(6N+EK) Unknown
332385 A-3 ??+?? 24-3-1944 I/KG100 Unknown
332444 A-3 F8+EP 26-11-1943 6./KG40 Unknown
332473 A-3 D7+BK Unknown Unknown Unknown
332618 A-3 6N+AS Unknown I/KG100 Unknown
332628 A-3 ??+?? Unknown Wekusta2/0bdL Unknown
332629 A-3 ??+?? Unknown Wekusta2/01IL Unknown
355055 A-3 ??+?? 3-3-1943 KdE Unknown
355056 A-3 ??+?? 22-7-1943 V28,KdE Unknown
355078 A-3 ??+?? 26-6-1943 KdE Unknown
535352 A-3 GP+WB Unknown Unknown Unknown
535353 A-3 GP+WC Unknown V32 Unknown
535354 A-3 GP+WD Unknown V33 Unknown
535364 A-3 GP+WN 20-12-1943 V34,KdE Unknown
535366 A-3 GP+WP 28-6-1944 V35,KdE Unknown
535370 A-3 GP+WU 29-11-1943 I/KG40 Unknown
535372 A-3 F8+GH 12-9-1943 4./KG40 Unknown
535437 A-3 GP+WY 28-10-1943 KdE Unknown
535441 A-3 GJ+RC ??/02/44 II/KG40 Unknown
535454 A-3 GJ+RP 17-12-1943 2./KG40 Unknown
535552 A-3 NN+QS ??/09/43 KdE(toA-5) Unknown
535673 A-3 F8+DX 8-6-1944 12./KG40 Unknown
535674 A-3 ??+?? ??/02/44 II/KG40 Unknown
535675 A-3 ??+?? Unknown II/KG40 Unknown
535678 A-3 F8+CV 27-3-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
535682 A-3 ??+?? ??/02/44 II/KG40 Unknown
535687 A-3 F8+KH Unknown 1./KG40 Unknown
535689 A-3 ??+?? ??/02/44 II/KG40 Unknown
535690 A-3 F8+MK 26-3-1944 1./KG40 Unknown
535733 A-3 F8+PV 28-1-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
535736 A-3 CJ+FJ 21-1-1944 I/KG100 Unknown
535751 A-3 CJ+FY ??/02/44 I/KG40 Unknown
535752 A-3 F8+AU 2-6-1944 10./KG40 Unknown
535753 A-3 ??+?? 23-1-1944 II/KG40 Unknown
535758 A-3 F8+MK 22-3-1944 2./KG40 Unknown
535849 A-3 GR+MG Unknown III/KG100 Unknown
535850 A-3 GR+MH 28-6-1944 V40,KdE Unknown
535852 A-3 F8+QU 20-5-1944 10./KG40 Unknown
535857 A-3 F8+AX 3-6-1944 12./KG40 Unknown
535865 A-3 GR+MW Unknown II/KG40 Unknown
535866 A-3 GR+MX Unknown 8./KG100 Unknown
535869 A-3 GR+MZ ??/01 /44 II/KG40 Unknown
535870 A-3 F8+TV 3-2-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
550001 A-5 6N+FM 9-10-1944 4./KG40 Unknown
550004 A-5 6N+CM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550033 A-5 6N+EM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550035 A-5 KM+TK 30-6-1944 KdE Unknown
550038 A-5 KM+TN 25-5-1944 V37,KdE Unknown
550039 A-5 KM+TO Unknown II/KG10 Unknown
550040 A-5 KM+TP Unknown II/KG100 Unknown
550042 A-5 6N+IM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550043 A-5 6N+HM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550044 A-5 6N+HN 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550045 A-5 6N+KM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550046 A-5 6N+BM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550047 A-5 6N+GM ??/10/44 EK36 Unknown
550049 A-5 KM+TY 2-5-1944 V39,KdE Unknown
550054 A-5 KM+UD 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550055 A-5 KM+UE ??/06/44 EHAG Unknown
550057 A-5 KM+UG ??/09/44 II/KG40 Unknown
550060 A-5 KM+UJ Unknown II/KG40 Unknown
550072 A-5 6N+MM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550076 A-5 6N+LP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550090 A-5 ??+?? 13-7-1944 II/KG40 Unknown
550120 A-5 6N+AN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550121 A-5 6N+HP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550122 A-5 6N+BN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550123 A-5 F8+CU 26-5-1944 10./KG40 Unknown
550125 A-5 6N+IP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550127 A-5 6N+CC 9-10-1944 II/KG100 Unknown
550128 A-5 6N+CN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550129 A-5 F8+DX 20-6-1944 11./KG40 Unknown
550130 A-5 6N+MM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550131 A-5 6N+DN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550132 A-5 6N+EN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550133 A-5 6N+AC 9-10-1944 II/KG100 Unknown
550134 A-5 6N+FN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550135 A-5 6N+MN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550136 A-5 6N+HN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550137 A-5 6N+IN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550138 A-5 6N+KN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550139 A-5 6N+GN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550140 A-5 6N+LM 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550145 A-5 ??+?? Unknown II/KG40 Unknown
550146 A-5 ??+?? 14-6-1944 4./KG40 Unknown
550150 A-5 6N+FP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550151 A-5 6N+KP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550158 A-5 6N+DM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550159 A-5 6N+CP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550160 A-5 6N+EP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550161 A-5 6N+LN 9-10-1944 5./KG100 Unknown
550162 A-5 6N+BP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550166 A-5 6N+GP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550168 A-5 F8+AX 14-5-1944 13./KG40 Unknown
550170 A-5 6N+AP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550172 A-5 6N+HP 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550213 A-5 ??+?? 5-7-1944 5./KG40 Unknown
550230 A-5 GP+RA 13-7-1944 I/KG40 Unknown
550235 A-5 GP+RE Unknown I/KG40 Unknown
550263 A-5 6N+AM 9-10-1944 4./KG100 Unknown
550266 A-5 GM+DJ 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550319 A-5 DV+OL 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
550324 A-5 DV+OQ 9-10-1944 6./KG100 Unknown
32013 A-0 DR+IU ??/09/44 IV/KG40 War booty
550256 A-5 GP+RY mid-1945 RebuilttoA-7 War booty
15158 A-1 GI+BS 21-2-1942 Arado Wing fracture
5 V5 PM+OD 23-6-1943 5thprototype Wrecked
15216 A-1 VE+UP Unknown KdE,(diving) Wrecked
332237 A-3 ??+?? 27-6-1944 EK25 Wrecked
332476 A-3 ??+?? Unknown I/KG1 Wrecked
332491 A-3 V4+IS 1-8-1944 8./KG1 Wrecked
332515 A-3 DW+CS 3-5-1944 I/KG1 Wrecked
335004 A-3 ??+?? Unknown V16(trials) Wrecked
335005 A-3 ??+?? Unknown V17(trainer) Wrecked
550221 A-5 ??+?? 13-6-1944 6./KG40 Wrecked

The He 177 IMO never was given the credit it deserved. According to Heinkel He 177 Greif: Heinkel's Strategic Bomber by Smith and Creek at least 918 were built based on their research, though the official German records put that at 1,170.

I know this is several several years late in answering, but yes it was well armored ranging from 6mm to 18mm. Tests were successful in launching Fritz-X, Hs 239, Hs 294 and possibly the Hs 295 but per the authors was rarely actually launched in combat.

It truly is a pity that no example survive today.

918 were built based on their research, though the official German records put that at 1,170.

Click to expand...

Numerical difference probably involves early model He-177s which were later modified to He-177A3 or He-177A5 configuration. So higher figure is counting some airframes twice.

Early Me-210s have the same issue. Many were converted to Me-410 so it's easy to count the aircraft twice if you don't note difference between new construction and conversions.

That is a logical explanation, well done.

davebender said:

Numerical difference probably involves early model He-177s which were later modified to He-177A3 or He-177A5 configuration. So higher figure is counting some airframes twice.

Early Me-210s have the same issue. Many were converted to Me-410 so it's easy to count the aircraft twice if you don't note difference between new construction and conversions.

Click to expand...

Stored Me 210 fuselages were completed as Me 410, they have never been a Me 210 so they weren't counted twice.
He 177 A-1 upgraded to A-3 standard would not have been counted as A-3 again.
Actually german records count 1135 of which 8 were pure prototypes and 35 the preseries A-0

Does the quoted book have a breakdown by model and manufacturer?

tyrodtom said:

I may be wrong because my statistics courses were a long time ago but if the chance to go down on a mission is 10%, that means the chance to survive 10 missions ist still 34.8%.

Click to expand...

I think maybe you are wrong. If you have a group of 10 aircraft, if on the first mission they lose 1, The next mission, their still 10 aircraft because they've got a replacement, they again lose 1, and so on for 10 missions. in effect you will have replaced them all. I know in real life the bad fate might befall the replacement aircraft and crew instead of a veteran crew, but a 10% loss rate per mission cannot be sustained for long.
The 8th Air Forces blackest day was their 2nd raid on Schwienfurt, they had a 20% loss rate on that mission. It was a daylight mission of course, and unescorted. After that mission all unescorted daylight missions were stopped.[/QUOTE]

He's right. A 10% loss rate means that 90% of the aircraft are not lost. Assuming that losses are independent (which will be mostly true in different missions), plane X has a 90% chance of surviving the each mission. The chance of surviving two missions is 0.9 time 0.9 or 81%, three about 73%, etc. The chance of surviving 10 is 0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9=0.349=34.9%. Even a 2% loss rate means that plane X (and its crew) has only about a 50% chance of surviving 35 missions.