Heinkel He 45 in Russia

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by A4K, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    G'day guys!

    Does anyone have any info regarding the He 45s pulled from training squadrons and used in the Störstaffeln in Russia, 1942-43? Paintschemes and markings especially sought, with a view to chucking one in the bomber build.

    Thanks in advance!
    Evan
     
  2. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Evan, I was looking through my folders but was unable to find any color profile of He 45 used in the role you suggested. However, He 46 is another matter. If you are interested I can post few color profiles of He 46 used as night harassment aircraft. These were published in Classic and Osprey publications.
     
  3. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Igor, that'd be great!

    To be honest I don't really know anything about the aircraft used in this role, so any info would be appreciated!
     
  4. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    No problem Evan. Here are few color profiles of different aircraft types (including He 46) used by the Germans for night harassment. First two profiles are from Classic Publications others are from Osprey.
     

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  5. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    Damn, those are some fine profiles Igor - thanks! :D

    - can see I'll have to get an He 46 some time..!
     
  6. kgambit

    kgambit Active Member

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    #6 kgambit, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
    And I'm looking to add the Ar 66. :)

    I looked thru some of my reference material, Evan. Couldn't find one image showing the He 45 in Eastern Front markings or colors. I found most of the images that Igor posted in the Osprey Schlachtgruppen publication if that helps but nothing in the Jagdwaffe Luftwaffe Colors series either in the Ground Attack or Nightfighter books.

    What from I can tell the standard nightfighter / night harassment units seemed to have RLM 22 undersides, with a variety of topside colors including white or rlm 70/71.

    Sorry I couldn't find more.

    I did find a little bit more information: By 1942, the Russians began using obsolete aircraft such as the Polikarpov Po-2 to conduct night harassment missions against the Germans. Noting the success of the raids, the Germans began conducting their own night harassment missions with obsolete aircraft on the Eastern Front. In December 1942, the first Störkampfstaffeln (harassment squadron) was established and equipped with Gotha Go 145 and Arado Ar 66. The night harassment units were successful and by October 1943 there were six night harassment squadrons equipped with Gotha Go 145. Also in October 1943, the Störkampfstaffeln were redesignated Nachtschlachtgruppe (NSGr) (night ground attack group, literally night battle group). In March 1945 Nachtschlachtgruppe 5 had 69 Gotha Go 145’s on strength of which 52 were serviceable [3] while Nachtschlachtgruppe 3 in the Courland Pocket had 18 Gotha Go 145’s on strength of which 16 were serviceable .
    The He 45 served with Nationalist Spain (at least 40 aircraft) and 6 He 45C aircraft served with the Legion Kondor. Most surviving He 45C were relegated to training schools by 1939, though in the Autumn of 1942 most remaining aircraft were transfered to Storkampfstaffeln (night harrasment squadrons) on the eastern front.

    Nachtschlachtgruppe 2

    Gruppenkommandeure:

    Hptm Heinz Müller, 18.10.43 - 22.11.44
    Maj Robert Rohn, 22.11.44 - 1.3.45
    Hptm Weber, 1.3.45 - 30.3.45
    Hptm Denker, 1.4.45 - 8.5.45
    Formed 18.10.43 in Baranowicze from Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 6.

    Stab from Stab/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 6
    1. staffel from 1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 6
    2. staffel from 2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 6
    3. staffel from 3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 6

    4./NSGr. 2 was formed 1.44 with Ar 66.

    In 6.44 2./NSGr. 2 was transferred to Italy, and became 3./NSGr. 9 in 8.44. A new 2./NSGr.2 was formed 5.12.44 from 1./NSGr. 6.

    In 2.45 4./NSGr.2 became 4./NSGr.5.

    The Gruppe converted to Ju 87, 12.43 - 5.44, one staffel at a time.

    Aircraft used: He 46, Ar 66, Go 145, Fw 58, Fi 156, Hs 126 and Ju 87

    Nachtschlachtgruppe 9

    Gruppekommandeure:

    Maj August Frost, 8.44 - 15.12.44
    Obstlt Dipl.Ing. Karl Vehmeyer, 14.12.44 - 8.5.45
    1./NSGr. 9 was formed 12.43 in Udine with Ca 314 (crews from NSGr. 3)

    2./NSGr. 9 was formed 7.2.44 in Turin-Caselle with CR.42

    Stab and 3./NSGr. 9 was formed 8.44 with Ju 87 (3. Staffel from 2./NSGr. 2)

    1./NSGr. 9 converted to CR.42 in 2.44; 1. and 2./NSGr. 9 converted to Ju 87 in 4.44.

    Aircraft used: Ca 314, Fw 58, CR.42, Ju 87, some Fw 190 were received in 1.45

    I checked the entire set of NSGr listings at www.ww2.dk and could not find ONE reference to a specific unit that actually employed the He 45. Still digging though.


    BTW, I've got a He 45 underway but the color scheme is geared to the Spanish Civil War (RLM 61 stripes over an overall RLM 63) so it's not much help and there was nothing in the kit to hint at an eastern front type scheme either.
     
  7. kgambit

    kgambit Active Member

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    FOUND some stuff:

    Here are the units that I could confim used the He 45:

    Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1

    Gruppenkommandeure:

    Maj Boris von Maubeuge, 2.43 - 25.9.43
    Hptm Wolfgang Ziechel, 25.9.43 - 18.10.43
    Formed 2.43 in Szolzy from 1. Behelfskampfstaffel Luftflotte 1 with:

    Stab/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 new
    1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 new
    2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 new
    3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 new
    4./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 new

    On 18.10.43 redesignated NSGr.1:

    Stab/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 became Stab/NSGr.1
    1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 became 1./NSGr.1
    2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 became 1./NSGr.3
    3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 became 2./NSGr.1
    4./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 became 2./NSGr.3

    Aircraft used: Ar 66, Go 145, He 45, He 46 and W.34

    Bases:

    2.43 - (?)7.43 Szoltzy*
    7.43 - 10.43 Idriza**

    * Stab, 1., 2. Staffeln mainly at Szoltzy, 3. Staffel at Krasnowardeisk and 4. Staffel at Gatschina

    ** 1. Staffel at Shary and 4. Staffel at Gatschina

    ..........................................................................................

    Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4

    Gruppenkommandeure:

    ?
    Formed 11.42 in Nikolayev(?) with:

    Stab/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 new
    1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from Verbindungsstaffel 66
    2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from Verbindungsstaffel 63
    3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from Verbindungsstaffel 64

    In 2.43 Stab/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 lost its Staffeln:

    1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became Verbindungsstaffel 66
    2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became Verbindungsstaffel 63
    3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became Verbindungsstaffel 64

    In 3.43 6 new Staffeln was formed:

    1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from 1./Störkampfgruppe Lw.Kdo. Don
    2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from 2./Störkampfgruppe Lw.Kdo. Don
    3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from 3./Störkampfgruppe Lw.Kdo. Don
    4./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 from 4./Störkampfgruppe Lw.Kdo. Don
    5./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 new
    6./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 new

    On 18.10.43 redesignated NSGr.4:

    Stab/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became Stab/NSGr.4
    1./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became 1./NSGr.4
    2./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became 2./NSGr.4
    3./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became 1./NSGr.6
    4./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became 1./NSGr.5
    5./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became 2./NSGr.5
    6./Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 became 2./NSGr.6

    Aircraft used: Ar 66, Do 17, Fw 44, Fw 58, Fw 189, Go 145, He 45, He 46, Hs 126, Ju 87 and W.34

    Bases:

    11.42 -2.43 Nikolayev(?)
    3.43 - 8.43 Charkow-Nord*
    8.43 - 10.43 Saporoshje**

    * 3. and 6. Staffeln at Wyschesteblijewskaja (4.43 - 10.43); 4. Staffel at Kramatorskaja (4.43 - 6.43); 5. Staffel at Kuteinikowo (5.43 - 7.43)

    ** 5. Staffel at Iwanowka (9.43) and Pawlograd (9.43 - 10.43)
    ......................................................................

    Schlachtfliegergruppe 20

    Gruppenkommandeure:

    Maj Werner Rentsch, 1.8.38 - 1.11.38
    Formed 1.8.38 in Tutow with:

    Stab/SFGr.20 new
    1./SFGr.20 new
    2./SFGr.20 new
    3./SFGr.20 new

    Disbanded 1.11.38, and used to form I./St.G.160.

    Bases:

    8.38 - 9.38 Tutow He 45
    9.38 - 11.38 Breslau He 45


    .................................................................

    Schlachtfliegergruppe 40

    Gruppenkommandeure:

    Maj Georg Spielvogel, 1.8.38 - 1.11.38
    Formed 1.8.38 in Fassberg with:

    Stab/SFGr.40 new
    1./SFGr.40 new
    2./SFGr.40 new
    3./SFGr.40 new

    Disbanded 1.11.38.

    Bases:

    8.38 - 9.38 Fassberg He 45
    9.38 - 11.38 Regensburg He 45

    ............................................................

    As near as I can find, Störkampfgruppe/Luftflotte 6;
    Störkampfgruppe/Lw.Kdo. Don; Störkampfgruppe/Lw.Kdo. Ost; and Störkampfstaffel Südost did not employ the He 45.

    hope that helps Evan. :lol:
     
  8. kgambit

    kgambit Active Member

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    And here's a bit more, by the time of Kursk in 1943 here's the OOB for Luftflotte 4:

    Luftflotte 4 (Gen.d.Fl. Otto Deßloch)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Fernaufklärungsgruppe 4
    Major Hans-Dietrich Klette

    1.(F)/Nacht Do 217M-1/He 111H-6 Saporoschje-Süd
    2.(F)/22 (IV. Fl.Korps) Ju 88D-1/D-5 Stalino
    2.(F)/100 Ju 88D-1/D-5 -?
    2.(F)/11 (VIII. Fl.Korps) Ju 88D-1 Charkow
    3.(F)/121 Ju 88 -?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wekusta 76 Ju 88D-1 Saporoschje-Ost

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Verbindungskommando (S) 4 He 111H-6/11 (Schlepp),
    Ju 87B/R (Schlepp),
    DFS 230/Go 242 -?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Störkampfgruppe d. Lfl. 4

    1. Störkampfstaffel He 46/Do 17/Hs 126 Charkow-Nord
    2. Störkampfstaffel Ar 66/Fw 189/Junkers W 34 Charkow-Nord
    3. Störkampfstaffel Go 145 Charkow-Nord
    4. Störkampfstaffel Ar 66/Fw 58/Ju 87B/R/D Charkow-Nord
    5. Störkampfstaffel He 46/Hs 126/Ar 66 Charkow-Nord
    6. Störkampfstaffel Go 145 Charkow-Nord

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Note that the He 45 is no longer visible so those units may have been withdrawn from service.
     
  9. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff Dwight. You found a lot of material on the subject there. Thanks for sharing.
     
  10. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    I came across these in Heinkel Combat Aircraft I'm still looking as I have a pic somewhere.
     

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  11. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    #11 A4K, Dec 30, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
    Dwight and VB - thank you both very much!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

    So... if I've understood this right, according to Dwight's info the He 45 was operated in 1943 by Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 (and possibly NSGr.1 and/or NSGr.3 if type still in service by October of that year), and 1942-3 by Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 and possibly NSGr.4 (and possibly verbindingsstaffel 63,64, or 66??).
    Would you agree?

    According to this site: The Luftwaffe in Scale: Identification Codes of Luftwaffe Units 1939 - 1945 , the S7+ codes of VB's pics are connected with St.G.3 (Sturzkampf-or Stukageschwader 3: 3 Dive-bomber Wing) and SG 3 (Schlachtgescwader 3 - 3 Harassment or Assault Wing), so possibly an aircraft of NSGr.3 ?
    (Bomb racks and MG 15 seem to be absent in the photos, but I presume these would only have been fitted prior to the mission)
    Seems to be in the colours Dwight mentioned too, and in some of igor's profiles: RLM 22/70/71.

    Looks like we're in business for the build! Thanks guys! :D

    (BTW, Dwight - which kit are you doing? Mine is the AML 1:72 kit)
     
  12. kgambit

    kgambit Active Member

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    Sturzkampfgeschwader 3 used either S7+?? S1+??

    In january 1942 Stab and I. Gruppe changed code from S1 to S7 when the II. and II. Gruppe were formed


    Evan, I'm using the exact same kit. I'm going to do the He 45 in Torrelaga 1938 color scheme.

    A word of caution on the kit - the mounting points for the main struts underwing on the main wing on the starboard side are incorrect. They are significantly inboard of where they should actually attach - they should be outboard by about a half inch possibly a bit more or less. In addition, the rear wing attachment points are higher than they should be as well - by about 1.5 mm. There is a panel line that runs the length of the fuselage and the rear wing attachments should be made just above that panel line.

    Also, get your putty and files ready. The attachment holes for the lower and rear wings and the landing gear struts will need to be enlarged. The attachment surfaces will need to be filed to the proper angles as well. Plus I ended up having to putty seams and joints at virtually EVERY attachment point on that kit but especially at the lower wing joins to the fuselage, rear wing joins to the fuselage, tail and rudder joins, the front engine cowling and the fuselage halves. The seam joints aren't too bad and the putty lines are fairly clean but just be prepared to do a fair amount of clean up on the kit. :)

    In spite of all that, the kit goes together pretty well. Here's the in-progress shots with the RLM 63 on and the wing tips paint white (masked off). I also had to totally rebuild the rear gunners station. That circular hole piece got mislaid during our move so I had to rebuild it from scratch along with the two angled bulkheads in front and behind it. I think it came out great. :)
     

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  13. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    You're not wrong mate, it does look great!!

    Thanks for the additional info, and advice on the kit! I had read in a review she was a bit of a bugger for fit, your opinion confirms that then... looks magic what you've done with her anyway.
    (whats that in the background too -Mil Mi-2 helicopter or something?)

    What is your opinion of the He-45 interior detail, btw? Looks fairly okay to me, but I haven't found anything to check it against yet.
     
  14. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    I agree with Evan.She looks great.Keep working ....:D
     
  15. kgambit

    kgambit Active Member

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    Thanks Wojtek and Evan. :)

    Evan, that camo you see in the background is the port wing to my SM 82 Marsupiale. :)

    The interior detail is actually okay but only after you add the PE instrument panel and belts - it's stark without them. However, the interior is SO small and confining that you won't see much of the detail anyway except for those two aforementioned bits in the pilots cockpit, plus the rear gunners seat and an instrument console.

    Well the comments you read about the fit are dead on. It took a LOT of sanding, buffing - resanding, rebuffing, ad naseum to get some of those pieces together. I should have taken a shot before I painted it - just so you could see all the putty seams. :lol: Kind of looked like the scars on Frankenstein's Monster! :lol: Maybe I should nickname this plane "my little zipperhead".

    Make sure you check out the two lower main wings for warping. I had to do some very careful heating of one of those wings to get a noticeable warp out of it. The Upper wing was fine though.
     
  16. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    ...And I thought this would be a chance to a 'quick' build... :rolleyes: :)

    Thanks for the advice mate. Sounds like a bit of work for sure, though you'd never think it looking at the result you achieved with your 'little Zipperhead'!
     
  17. kgambit

    kgambit Active Member

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    I actually started that build in 2007! I did a bunch of work while we were still living in Texas, then put it aside for a while, and restarted it about a week ago. All of the aseembly was done in the past week though. It just takes some time to get everything fitted - once that is done, it's not too bad. :lol:
     
  18. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    That's good to hear! In fact, I'll make a start on her I think! :D
     
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