Heinz Bar's Fw 190A-7 Rot 23

Discussion in 'Building Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by Njaco, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    For the past 2 years I've been working on and off with a 1/48 Fw 190 of Major Heinz Bar's. I just read that he had a reserve Fw 190A-7 "Rot 23" that had an enlarged wooden propellor. Anybody have any more info as I may now have to change a few things. Thanks.
     
  2. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    he flew a couple of A-7's and A-8's Njaco. side note the man was a distant relative on my mothers side of the fence. He was born only 20 miles from where my relatives still live in the Pfalz-land.

    you have profile(s) of Röte 23 ? there seems to be only photos of one bird though as far as I am aware.

    E ~
     
  3. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Thanks Eric. Here is what I found....

    Fw 190 Aces of the Western Front by John Weal. pg 55

    ".....Bar sprinted to his reserve machine - 'Red 23', an Fw 190A-7 which was fitted with a special large diameter wooden propellor - and quickly took off accompanied by his regular wingman....."

    I just making sure I didn't mess anything up. Weal does have a profile of 23 on pg 59.
     
  4. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Heres a profile I found.....
     

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  5. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    I would discount almost everything that Weal has to offer Njaco, the day time offers from osprey are terrible both in text and profiles, not sure if the wooden prop is a myth or not for the A-7, would believe it for an A-8 and A-9. Baer (Bär) was a hot pilot probably the best in my opinion so he could feasibly have whatever he wanted as to the way of custom fittings.

    try eagle-editions.com and go to decals, there might be red 23 or 13 somewhere in their many Fw 190 sheets
     
  6. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    i've got this njaco if its any help from luftwaffe fighter aircraft in profile
     

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  7. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Njaco the above profile is not correct. one thing the undercowling is not red most likely yellow. it should also have a wide red defense Reich band on the fuselage, it also has a white spiral on the prop. I do not beleive it has a white rjdder or scoreboard as shown at all. red 23 did have a wooden prop and he did have a reserve machine. the profile is actually an assumption and has taken the pics of sorts of red 23 and red 13 and put them together. REd 23 is not a 5th staffel crate but a Gruppenstab II./JG 1 unit

    now for red 13 which had a white spiral on the prop as well, red second gruppe bar over a wide red defense band. the balkenkreuz is outlined in black and the rudder is white with his victory tally of 200, werke nummer is 431 007, there appears to be a yellow undercowling ID marking as well. this is also an A-7 crate. He flew this as Kommandeur of II./JG 1 reason for the red numeral.

    Both crates flown in April of 1944 by this ace.

    ~ another side notation possibly of interest; Heinz received a captured leather bomber crew jacket which he altered with LW insignia - shoulder boards and loved wearing it as he flew missions.

    E ~
     
  8. phas3e

    phas3e Member

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    Im sure theres a photo of it too.


    I had around here somewhere...
     
  9. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Great info Erich! :thumbleft:
     
  10. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Just looking at the Sky Models decals that I have. it shows Bar's 190 as above with red bar and defence band. #431007 and it has the more square style of 13, it doesn't show any yellow undercowling though, but white spiral on the spinner. Attach to 2/JG 1, Darmstadt 1945 says the text....
     
  11. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    I have pics of both crates. red 21 in 1945 with 2./JG 1 ? very doubtful most likely both red numbered units were shot down with other pilots at the helm during the latter stages of the war. some of the decal outfits sure don't do their homework
     
  12. Airframes

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    It might not be much help to you, Njaco, but I think this was one of the aircraft included in the old Monogram1/48th kit from the late '60's(!) If so, believe it or not, I might still have the decals! They'll be no where near today's quality, I would think, but if they're of any use to you, you're welcome to them.
    Terry.
     
  13. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Terry, thats the exact kit I'm doing. The decals I have are ok - have a lot of aftermarket stuff.

    My question I guess is how much larger are the blades than what comes in the kit? Can it be done? How?

    Erich, thankx for the heads up on Weal. I thought his stuff was pretty good. And I'm aware that profile is bad. It was the only one I could find that I couldn't scan.
     

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  14. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    I have the Hasegawa kit decals lying around, but I'm not sure if they would be accurate. I don't know if you'd be able to tell me without seeing them. Unfortunately they're 1/32 Njaco. :(
     
  15. Airframes

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    I can only think of two possible ways of doing the prop blades. Either try to adapt ones from a 190D, or, modify one kit blade, say with 'Milliput' or similar, or carve one(!), then cast some in resin from the 'master'.
    The only other alternative is to hunt around for suitable blades from other aircraft. Not perhaps the best example, but maybe a Typhoon, and modify to suit. If it was 1/32nd, there'd be a bit more latitude, because of thicknes etc.
    I'll have a look in my spares box for you, but I'm doubtful! Wait, just remembered! I've got a full set of 1/48th Mosquito 'paddle' blades. Maybe, with reshaping, you could get the right profile/chord? Check the size/length you need, and I'll measure the blades I have for you. might not be until Friday though.
    Terry.
     
  16. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    Hi Erich,

    where do they live? I used to work and live in Rheinland-Pfalz, in Boppard, near Koblenz 10 years ago...
     
  17. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Thanks Terry. Like I said this project has been half-a**ed since I started (also have a hellcat and a Hs 129 half completed) and when I read that about the prop I was beside myself. The decals I have are fine, just getting little things correct.

    Heres a crazy question: Anybody know how much larger the prop was?
     
  18. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    I think this one is fitted with the wooden propeller....

    Internet Modeler and Will Riepl
     

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  19. Airframes

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    That confirms something. If you can get a 1/48th Typhoon 3 blade prop, it will look very like the one in the model photo Lucky posted. I'll see if I can scale out those Mossie paddle blades, to check if they could be trimmed and sanded to that shape and let you know tomorrow. If you were doing it in 1/32nd, I've got just the prop that would do the job, in the spares box!
     
  20. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    go to the 1st page the red 23 by Sundin is what you want.

    Roman they still live at Grünstadt in the northern section: ace, Heinz Baer was born right off the main road at Ungstein to the south of Grünstadt. our old home and I mean that sucker is old is up in the hills to the west of Bad Dürkheim at Höningen. My closet relatives still live in the old village and the cemetary is full of my loved ones with the old Deutsche Schrift on the rock gravestones. the others are in Neuss in the Ruhr and in the Saarland.

    yee haw ! E ~
     
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