Hello! I need help of experts for a personal project i am working on.

FlyingWonders · May 14, 2023

Hello everyone, I am currently working on a personal project set during ww2, 1943 in North Africa, involving German and English pilots.

I've been doing a lot of research for the project, and there is some information so specific I need I just couldn't find anywhere.
So I decided to sign in here and get help from the experts!

Thank you in advance!

ARTESH · May 14, 2023

There are very knowledgeable people here! I hope they can help you

GrauGeist · May 14, 2023

Let us know what you need and we'll do our best to help.

special ed · May 15, 2023

Maybe the color for a model he is building.

FlyingWonders · May 15, 2023

special ed said:
Maybe the color for a model he is building.

About that, just to be sure: I`ve downloaded some paint schemes for 3 aircraft: The Spitfire MK VB, the Focke-Wulf 190 D-4, and the Ju 87 D-3, are these okay for the period:

Sources

- https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cd/e3/92/cde39275bc1c5930eab6ab49b32891df.jpg (Stuka)

- The Building of a Desert Fw 190 - Air War Publications (Fw190)

- The South African Air Force (Spitfire MkVb)

Wurger · May 15, 2023

Yep .. the colours for the 1943 are OK. However the Spitfire profile of the no.9 Squadron kite is dated on 1944. The Sky band one the fuselage indicateds the standard ETO camouflage with the Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey colours rather. The Ju-87D-1 and the Fw 190A-4 are dated on 1942.

Junkers-Ju-87D1-Stuka-8.StG3-(S7+KS)-Stkz-xx+MO-damaged-during-a-force-landing-and-abandoned-E...jpg

Focke-Wulf-Fw-190A4Trop-EKdo19-White-1-WNr-145614-Benghazi-Lybia-Nov-1942.jpg

the source: the net.

Not the Spitfire Mk.V ES354 but other Spits of the ES series ... in the desert camouflage in 1942/1943 period ...

Spitfire-MkVcTrop-RAF-43Sqn-FTY-ES352-at-Comiso-Sicily.jpg

Spitfire MkV_ES187 'C' and ES191 'T' of no154 Squadron RAF.jpg

the source:

ROYAL AIR FORCE: ITALY, THE BALKANS AND SOUTH-EAST EUROPE, 1942-1945.

Airmen of No. 3201 Servicing Commando approach Supermarine Spitfire Mark VC, ES352 'FT-Y', of No. 43 Squadron RAF at Comiso, Sicily.

www.iwm.org.uk

ROYAL AIR FORCE OPERATIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA, 1939-1943.

Supermarine Spitfire Mark Vs of No. 322 Wing RAF, parked in their dispersals at Tingley, Algeria. In the foreground Mark VBs ES187 'C' and ES191 'T' of No. 154 Squadron RAF are being brought to readiness for a patrol. Note the extensive use of pierced steel planking (PSP) to surface the...

www.iwm.org.uk

FlyingWonders · May 15, 2023

Wurger said:
Yep .. the colours for the 1943 are OK. However the Spitfire profile of the no.9 Squadron kite is dated on 1944. The Sky band one the fuselage indicateds the standard ETO camouflage with the Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey colours rather. The Ju-87D-1 and the Fw 190A-4 are dated on 1942.

View attachment 720871

View attachment 720872
the source: the net.

Oh so the paint schemes are okay (except for the spitfire's which is a year later), but the aircraft are outdated? Because in the case of the German planes they remained in service during that time according to my knowledge. Or what do you mean? (Sorry if I don't fully understand, english is not my mother language, thanks a lot for replying though, this is very useful).

Wurger · May 15, 2023

I'm also not a native so don't worry about your English. It is fine. :thumbright:

Regarding the airframe types and being outdated ... all are correct for the 1942/1943 period.

Ju-87D-1 was introduced in 1941 while the Fw 190A-3 and A-4 in 1941-1942. The Spitfire Mk.Vb and c variants in 1941. So these stayed in service, at least, until the end of the 1943.

special ed · May 15, 2023

Welcome
Flying Wonders
Wurger is one of the "go to" for data.

FlyingWonders · May 16, 2023

Wurger said:
I'm also not a native so don't worry about your English. It is fine.

Regarding the airframe types and being outdated ... all are correct for the 1942/1943 period.

Ju-87D-1 was introduced in 1941 while the Fw 190A-3 and A-4 in 1941-1942. The Spitfire Mk.Vb and c variants in 1941. So these stayed in service, at least, until the end of the 1943.

About the markings and numbers: as this project is a work of ficition, I don't want to adress any real pilots or squadrons, so my plan was to create the models of the planes respecting the variant and the paint schemes, but remove the markings, I don`t know if that would be okay.

Wurger · May 16, 2023

So all the plane types and their camouflages are fine for the work.

A4K · May 17, 2023

In that case you can just remove the squadron codes (eg. the FT in the pic Wojtek posted) and seial no. of the Spitfire , and just leave an individual letter (the 'Y'), and for the Germans, just remove the staffel letters and numbers. Easy

Good luck with the project!

GrauGeist · May 17, 2023

Years ago, while making "skins" for aircraft to be used in a combat simulator, I kept the camouflage as accurate as possible, but created generic unit emblems, squadron codes and alternate spinner colors.

FlyingWonders · May 22, 2023

Hello! I had a doubt according to the uniforms and the equipment of the RAF and the luftwaffe:

As for the uniforms in North Africa, are these okay?:

-Stuka Pilot and Gunner:
These are the ones i am having real trouble with, can`t find anywhere the specific summer variation of the uniforms for the afrika korps.

- Stuka Pilot

- Uniforms of the Luftwaffe (1935–1945) - Wikipedia (Sorry for using wikipedia, but the image was really informative haha)

- RAF Fighter Pilot:

1 - WWII RAF Pilot's Uniform Libya Query

2 - 1942

(I know the aircraft in the background of the second Image is a P-40 not a Spitifre, but do the uniforms remain regardless of the aircraft you are flying?)

(The only pilots that are seen are the British Fighter Pilot and the Luftwaffe Stuka Crew).

GrauGeist · May 22, 2023

You'll find that aircrew (on both sides) wore shorts and light tunics (often called "Tropical Uniforms") in North Africa, as the daytime temperatures were very hot. I should add that it was common to also see the crew just wearing the uniform shirt (no tunic) with rolled up sleeves, too.

The average altitudes that they operated at did not require oxygen masks or heavy clothing. Also, unless they were on transport or anti-shipping missions over the Mediterranean, life-jackets would not be required.

buffnut453 · May 22, 2023

Also note there were a LOT of variations in attire. The operating environment led to considerable relaxation of uniform standards…at least that was the case for British Commonwealth forces.

Wurger · May 22, 2023

I agree with both posts above. There were variations of the RAF clothing. Instead of the shorts it could be the long trousers and instead of the light tunic it could be the battledress blouse. Also there could be wearing boots or shoes.

the pic source: the net.

Wurger · May 22, 2023

Regarding the German Stuka pilots ( crews ) ... in all pictures with them it can be noticed that the pilot and the radio-gunner wore a denim flight suit ( no matter what TO ). The flying suit could be of a jumpsuit type or a two-piece clothing that were wearing over the uniform. Also there were different shoes and boots that could be put on depending on the season. Additionally there was the parachute, aviator hat, flying goggles, life jacket if a flight was going to be over a sea like in the colour diagram above etc .. when not flying the field/side cap or the garrison one on a head. It looks like there were guys who wore the pants of the two-piece denim flight suit only for the uniform instead of the shorts ( see the last pic below).