I don't think you need to as those who make the claim certainly haven't gone into it that deeply.
high altitude bomber
- Thread starter Civettone
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I don't think you need to as those who make the claim certainly haven't gone into it that deeply.
That's where I got some of my info from. Those RRHT books are terrific.
IIRC the data sheets for the 4-engined Heinkel were floating on the 'net, hopefully we'll fish them out very soon
Comparing that A/C with B-17 is kinda unfair - one was old design by 1944/45, the other was a generation of B-29. For such an old design (by late war), B-17 was as good hi-alt bomber as it gets. For conditions of 1942-44, a bomber that cruises at 25000+ ft with a sizable bomb load was indeed a hi-alt bomber.
yulzari
Staff Sergeant
True but part of it was that the Mosquito did their load with 1/2 the number of engines and 1/5 the number of crew plus a lower loss rate. Not to mention that it was a feasible low level accurate bomber as well. We are comparing an adequate orange with an excellent apple.
Direct comparisons are hard with different doctrines. After all, four engines in four Albacores will dive bomb a point target with excellent accuracy with 8,000lb of bombs. Even the Fairey Battle can do it with a 6,000lb bomb load. As long as the target is not far away and, ideally, at night illuminated by flares. I mention, only in passing, that the same Albacores can cruise only 45mph slower than the B17 and carry 12 guns with the same crew as the B17. However they do use 16 wings to do it against 2 for the B17. The Battle can cruise a touch faster than the B17. But this way lies madness.
Last edited:
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 38,244
- Mar 26, 2007
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 779
- Sep 30, 2021
My understanding is most B-17 de icer boots were removed due to maintenance issues and the problems they caused if combat damaged.
The premise is the Mosquito as operated by Bomber Command, usually night individual sorties, versus the B-17 as used by the USAAF in Europe, day raids, assemble early into large, tight formations and maintain them for most of the mission. The sort of tactics that gave the early B-17F a combat radius of 320 miles with the 8th AF, despite various performance figures like 1,300 miles with 6,000 pounds of bombs.
Bomber Command Mosquito bomb raids for the war, 24,961 effective sorties, 26,554 long tons of bombs dropped, average bomb load 2,385 pounds with the possibility some pathfinder Mosquitoes only dropped part of their loads. The Mosquitoes dropped 8,398x4,000 pound HE bombs, plus 8x4,000 pound incendiaries. For bomb raids on Germany in 1944 the average bomb load was 2,750 pounds, 3.5% incendiary, in 1945 2,565 pounds, 5.4% incendiary. In theory the later Mosquito bombers could, at B-26 speed and height, carry 5,000 pounds to Berlin, with very little fuel reserve
The B-17 and B-24 topped out at 8x1,600 AP pound bombs internal while the B-17 was 6,000 pounds, the B-24 8,000 pounds HE internal, but as low as 2,400 pounds of 100 pound bombs or 4,800 tons of 300 pound bombs in the B-17, the USAAF says it dropped 6,284,271 HE bombs in Theatres versus Germany including 1,520,209x100 pound and 1,055,289x250 pound, which had a big effect on the average bomb load.
With V weapon and invasion support requirements in the first half to 9 months of 1944 the Bomber Command Mosquito force had a greater focus on Germany than the 8th AF did. The decline in Luftwaffe day fighter strength meant fewer guns and ammunition were needed, plus more direct routes could be flown, allowing an increase in the average bomb loads to more distant targets but within limits, the flak was more concentrated. The many shorter range missions to France in 1943/44 had enabled higher average bomb loads to these less well defended targets.
USAAF Statistical digest, ETO 274,921 effective heavy bomber sorties 714,719 short tons of bombs dropped, average bomb load 5,200 pounds, 8th AF report 264,618 effective B-17 and B-24 bombing sorties, 687,150.7 short tons of bombs, average 5,195 pounds. The 8th AF reports total bomb expenditure on combat operations including jettisoned and unaccounted for as 726,923.6 short tons of bombs. Richard Davis has 273,841 effective sorties, including over 10,000 Chaff, Leaflet, Carpetbagger, Supply, Red Stocking etc. 686,933.3 short tons of bombs. Tells us the Statistical Digest is counting heavy bomber sorties on all missions as well as jettisoned bombs, to end up at around the same average bomb load.
8th AF report B-17 average bomb load 5,140 pounds, 82.7% HE, 14.4% incendiary, 2.9% fragmentation. B-24 average bomb load 5,320 pounds, 83.5% HE, 13.5% incendiary, 3.0% fragmentation.
USAAF Statistical digest, MTO 147,111 effective heavy bomber sorties, 382,075 short tons of bombs dropped average bomb load 5,195 pounds. Richard Davis has 143,483 effective sorties, including 401 supply, 339,683.7 short tons of bombs, average bomb load 4,735 pounds, for the 9th, 12th and 15th AF
The 15th AF report January to October 1944 has 74,146 effective bomber sorties 182,181 short tons of bombs dropped and another 16,777 tons jettisoned, total 198,958, the Statistical Digest says 76,193 effective heavy bomber sorties 201,386 tons of bombs dropped, so again the digest is counting any type of combat sortie and includes jettisoned bombs. For the war the 15th AF says 303,961 short tons of bombs dropped, 92.4% HE, 2.2% incendiary, 5.4% fragmentation. B-17 average bomb load 5,280 pounds (94.2% HE, 1.5% incendiary, 4.3% fragmentation), B-24 4,465 pounds (91.3% HE, 2.6% incendiary, 6.1% fragmentation). From thousands of group level attacks there are only 20 or so dropping more than 3 short tons of bombs per aircraft. Not surprisingly the low average bomb loads, around 2,000 pounds, tended to be dropping fragmentation bombs or attacking tactical (troop) targets.
Note the great variation in averages in the following.
Average bomb loads RAF aircraft attacking Berlin, basically the tonnage of bombs credited as dropping on the target divided by the aircraft credited with bombing the target, Richard Davis figures. Mosquitoes not included as they were pathfinders, note the raids where there were a handful of Halifaxes would usually mean the Halifaxes were pathfinders.
23 August 1943, 124 Stirlings, 251 Halifaxes and 335 Lancasters, despatched, 625 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 6,350 pounds.
31 August 1943, 106 Stirlings, 176 Halifaxes and 331 Lancasters, despatched, 512 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 6,330 pounds.
3 September 1943, 316 Lancasters despatched, 295 credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,590 pounds.
18 November 1943, 440 Lancasters despatched, 402 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,880 pounds.
22 November 1943, 50 Stirlings, 234 Halifaxes and 469 Lancasters,despatched, 670 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,240 pounds.
23 November 1943, 10 Halifaxes, 365 Lancasters despatched, 322 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 9,240 pounds.
26 November 1943, 443 Lancasters despatched, 402 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,670 pounds.
2 December 1943, 15 Halifaxes, 425 Lancasters despatched, 401 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 9,415 pounds.
16 December 1943, 483 Lancasters despatched, 450 credited as bombing, average bomb load 9,035 pounds.
23 December 1943, 7 Halifaxes, 364 Lancasters despatched, 338 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,535 pounds.
29 December 1943, 252 Halifaxes, 457 Lancasters despatched, 656 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,903 pounds.
1 January 1944, 421 Lancasters despatched, 386 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,125 pounds.
2 January 1944, 9 Halifaxes, 362 Lancasters despatched, 311 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,040 pounds.
20 January 1944, 264 Halifaxes, 495 Lancasters despatched, 679 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,920 pounds.
27 January 1944, 515 Lancasters despatched, 481 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,200 pounds.
28 January 1944, 241 Halifaxes, 432 Lancasters despatched, 596 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,345 pounds.
30 January 1944, 82 Halifaxes, 440 Lancasters despatched, 489 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,980 pounds.
15 February 1944, 314 Halifaxes, 561 Lancasters despatched, 806 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,345 pounds.
24 March 1944, 216 Halifaxes, 577 Lancasters despatched, 726 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,690 pounds.
For US bombers the average bomb loads to Berlin, using the same methods as above are as follows, note that many to most of these raids had bombers attacking targets other than "Berlin", the usual targets of opportunity or different aiming points, which explains some of the differences between despatched and attacking figures.
Berlin on 9 March 1944, 361 B-17s despatched, 332 credited with attacking, average bomb load 4,630 pounds.
Berlin on 22 March 1994, 474 B-17s and 214 B-24s despatched 621 bombers credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,425 pounds (around 80 bombers attacked other targets, including 32 the Berlin/Basdorf industrial area)
Berlin on 29 April 1944, 446 B-17s and 233 B-24s despatched, 581 bombers credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,900 pounds.
Berlin on 7 May 1944, 600 B-17s despatched, 525 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,810 pounds. The B-24s sent to Osnabruck average bomb load 5,435 pounds.
Berlin on 8 May 1944, 500 B-17s despatched, 384 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,765 pounds. The B-24s sent to Brunswick average bomb load 4,790 pounds.
Berlin on 19 May 1944, 588 B-17s despatched, 493 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,325 pounds. The B-24s sent to Brunswick average bomb load 5,710 pounds, or around 1,000 pounds more than 11 days earlier.
Berlin on 24 May 1944, 616 B-17s despatched, 459 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,500 pounds.
Berlin on 21 June 1944, 866 B-17s and 366 B-24s despatched, to many targets, 560 bombers credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,900 pounds.
Berlin on 3 February 1945, 1,093 B-17s despatched, 934 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,890 pounds (interestingly the 215 bombers who used H2X to sight their bombs had an average load of around 70 pounds more, which is a warning to treat the figures as a guide, not absolute).
Berlin on 26 February 1945, 840 B-17s and 367 B-24s despatched, to many targets around Berlin, 1,089 bombers credited with attacking 3 targets in Berlin, average bomb load 5,100 pounds. Interestingly the Alexander Platz rail station strike, all B-17, had the highest average of 5,810 pounds, the North rail station strike, all B-24, the lowest at 4,480 pounds. Strike assignments from Freeman, Mighty 8th War Diary. If this is correct presumably this was done to allow the B-24s to fly that little bit higher. This hints at the possibility that, on average, the B-24 carried fewer bombs to Berlin than the B-17 in 1945 anyway.
Berlin on 18 March 1945, 982 B-17s and 347 B-24s despatched, 1,219 bombers credited with attacking. The raid list has 7 entries, for the targets attacked, by between 25 and 498 bombers, bomb load averages from 3,860 to 5,170 pounds, overall average bomb load 5,052 pounds.
Berlin on 28 March 1945, 446 B-17s despatched, 403 credited with attacking, average bomb load 5,155 pounds. By March 1945 many groups were flying with 9 crew, leaving one gunner behind and there was widespread removal of some gun turrets as well. The advantages of air superiority.
The premise is the Mosquito as operated by Bomber Command, usually night individual sorties, versus the B-17 as used by the USAAF in Europe, day raids, assemble early into large, tight formations and maintain them for most of the mission. The sort of tactics that gave the early B-17F a combat radius of 320 miles with the 8th AF, despite various performance figures like 1,300 miles with 6,000 pounds of bombs.
Bomber Command Mosquito bomb raids for the war, 24,961 effective sorties, 26,554 long tons of bombs dropped, average bomb load 2,385 pounds with the possibility some pathfinder Mosquitoes only dropped part of their loads. The Mosquitoes dropped 8,398x4,000 pound HE bombs, plus 8x4,000 pound incendiaries. For bomb raids on Germany in 1944 the average bomb load was 2,750 pounds, 3.5% incendiary, in 1945 2,565 pounds, 5.4% incendiary. In theory the later Mosquito bombers could, at B-26 speed and height, carry 5,000 pounds to Berlin, with very little fuel reserve
The B-17 and B-24 topped out at 8x1,600 AP pound bombs internal while the B-17 was 6,000 pounds, the B-24 8,000 pounds HE internal, but as low as 2,400 pounds of 100 pound bombs or 4,800 tons of 300 pound bombs in the B-17, the USAAF says it dropped 6,284,271 HE bombs in Theatres versus Germany including 1,520,209x100 pound and 1,055,289x250 pound, which had a big effect on the average bomb load.
With V weapon and invasion support requirements in the first half to 9 months of 1944 the Bomber Command Mosquito force had a greater focus on Germany than the 8th AF did. The decline in Luftwaffe day fighter strength meant fewer guns and ammunition were needed, plus more direct routes could be flown, allowing an increase in the average bomb loads to more distant targets but within limits, the flak was more concentrated. The many shorter range missions to France in 1943/44 had enabled higher average bomb loads to these less well defended targets.
USAAF Statistical digest, ETO 274,921 effective heavy bomber sorties 714,719 short tons of bombs dropped, average bomb load 5,200 pounds, 8th AF report 264,618 effective B-17 and B-24 bombing sorties, 687,150.7 short tons of bombs, average 5,195 pounds. The 8th AF reports total bomb expenditure on combat operations including jettisoned and unaccounted for as 726,923.6 short tons of bombs. Richard Davis has 273,841 effective sorties, including over 10,000 Chaff, Leaflet, Carpetbagger, Supply, Red Stocking etc. 686,933.3 short tons of bombs. Tells us the Statistical Digest is counting heavy bomber sorties on all missions as well as jettisoned bombs, to end up at around the same average bomb load.
8th AF report B-17 average bomb load 5,140 pounds, 82.7% HE, 14.4% incendiary, 2.9% fragmentation. B-24 average bomb load 5,320 pounds, 83.5% HE, 13.5% incendiary, 3.0% fragmentation.
USAAF Statistical digest, MTO 147,111 effective heavy bomber sorties, 382,075 short tons of bombs dropped average bomb load 5,195 pounds. Richard Davis has 143,483 effective sorties, including 401 supply, 339,683.7 short tons of bombs, average bomb load 4,735 pounds, for the 9th, 12th and 15th AF
The 15th AF report January to October 1944 has 74,146 effective bomber sorties 182,181 short tons of bombs dropped and another 16,777 tons jettisoned, total 198,958, the Statistical Digest says 76,193 effective heavy bomber sorties 201,386 tons of bombs dropped, so again the digest is counting any type of combat sortie and includes jettisoned bombs. For the war the 15th AF says 303,961 short tons of bombs dropped, 92.4% HE, 2.2% incendiary, 5.4% fragmentation. B-17 average bomb load 5,280 pounds (94.2% HE, 1.5% incendiary, 4.3% fragmentation), B-24 4,465 pounds (91.3% HE, 2.6% incendiary, 6.1% fragmentation). From thousands of group level attacks there are only 20 or so dropping more than 3 short tons of bombs per aircraft. Not surprisingly the low average bomb loads, around 2,000 pounds, tended to be dropping fragmentation bombs or attacking tactical (troop) targets.
Note the great variation in averages in the following.
Average bomb loads RAF aircraft attacking Berlin, basically the tonnage of bombs credited as dropping on the target divided by the aircraft credited with bombing the target, Richard Davis figures. Mosquitoes not included as they were pathfinders, note the raids where there were a handful of Halifaxes would usually mean the Halifaxes were pathfinders.
23 August 1943, 124 Stirlings, 251 Halifaxes and 335 Lancasters, despatched, 625 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 6,350 pounds.
31 August 1943, 106 Stirlings, 176 Halifaxes and 331 Lancasters, despatched, 512 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 6,330 pounds.
3 September 1943, 316 Lancasters despatched, 295 credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,590 pounds.
18 November 1943, 440 Lancasters despatched, 402 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,880 pounds.
22 November 1943, 50 Stirlings, 234 Halifaxes and 469 Lancasters,despatched, 670 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,240 pounds.
23 November 1943, 10 Halifaxes, 365 Lancasters despatched, 322 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 9,240 pounds.
26 November 1943, 443 Lancasters despatched, 402 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,670 pounds.
2 December 1943, 15 Halifaxes, 425 Lancasters despatched, 401 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 9,415 pounds.
16 December 1943, 483 Lancasters despatched, 450 credited as bombing, average bomb load 9,035 pounds.
23 December 1943, 7 Halifaxes, 364 Lancasters despatched, 338 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,535 pounds.
29 December 1943, 252 Halifaxes, 457 Lancasters despatched, 656 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,903 pounds.
1 January 1944, 421 Lancasters despatched, 386 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,125 pounds.
2 January 1944, 9 Halifaxes, 362 Lancasters despatched, 311 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,040 pounds.
20 January 1944, 264 Halifaxes, 495 Lancasters despatched, 679 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,920 pounds.
27 January 1944, 515 Lancasters despatched, 481 credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,200 pounds.
28 January 1944, 241 Halifaxes, 432 Lancasters despatched, 596 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,345 pounds.
30 January 1944, 82 Halifaxes, 440 Lancasters despatched, 489 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 8,980 pounds.
15 February 1944, 314 Halifaxes, 561 Lancasters despatched, 806 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,345 pounds.
24 March 1944, 216 Halifaxes, 577 Lancasters despatched, 726 bombers credited as bombing, average bomb load 7,690 pounds.
For US bombers the average bomb loads to Berlin, using the same methods as above are as follows, note that many to most of these raids had bombers attacking targets other than "Berlin", the usual targets of opportunity or different aiming points, which explains some of the differences between despatched and attacking figures.
Berlin on 9 March 1944, 361 B-17s despatched, 332 credited with attacking, average bomb load 4,630 pounds.
Berlin on 22 March 1994, 474 B-17s and 214 B-24s despatched 621 bombers credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,425 pounds (around 80 bombers attacked other targets, including 32 the Berlin/Basdorf industrial area)
Berlin on 29 April 1944, 446 B-17s and 233 B-24s despatched, 581 bombers credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,900 pounds.
Berlin on 7 May 1944, 600 B-17s despatched, 525 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,810 pounds. The B-24s sent to Osnabruck average bomb load 5,435 pounds.
Berlin on 8 May 1944, 500 B-17s despatched, 384 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,765 pounds. The B-24s sent to Brunswick average bomb load 4,790 pounds.
Berlin on 19 May 1944, 588 B-17s despatched, 493 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,325 pounds. The B-24s sent to Brunswick average bomb load 5,710 pounds, or around 1,000 pounds more than 11 days earlier.
Berlin on 24 May 1944, 616 B-17s despatched, 459 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,500 pounds.
Berlin on 21 June 1944, 866 B-17s and 366 B-24s despatched, to many targets, 560 bombers credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,900 pounds.
Berlin on 3 February 1945, 1,093 B-17s despatched, 934 credited with attacking Berlin, average bomb load 4,890 pounds (interestingly the 215 bombers who used H2X to sight their bombs had an average load of around 70 pounds more, which is a warning to treat the figures as a guide, not absolute).
Berlin on 26 February 1945, 840 B-17s and 367 B-24s despatched, to many targets around Berlin, 1,089 bombers credited with attacking 3 targets in Berlin, average bomb load 5,100 pounds. Interestingly the Alexander Platz rail station strike, all B-17, had the highest average of 5,810 pounds, the North rail station strike, all B-24, the lowest at 4,480 pounds. Strike assignments from Freeman, Mighty 8th War Diary. If this is correct presumably this was done to allow the B-24s to fly that little bit higher. This hints at the possibility that, on average, the B-24 carried fewer bombs to Berlin than the B-17 in 1945 anyway.
Berlin on 18 March 1945, 982 B-17s and 347 B-24s despatched, 1,219 bombers credited with attacking. The raid list has 7 entries, for the targets attacked, by between 25 and 498 bombers, bomb load averages from 3,860 to 5,170 pounds, overall average bomb load 5,052 pounds.
Berlin on 28 March 1945, 446 B-17s despatched, 403 credited with attacking, average bomb load 5,155 pounds. By March 1945 many groups were flying with 9 crew, leaving one gunner behind and there was widespread removal of some gun turrets as well. The advantages of air superiority.
Shortround6
Major General
We are worse.
We are comparing different operational environments at different times (years) during the war.
Most day bombing by Mosquito bombers was done between 31st May 1942 and 27th May 1943. On many of these operations (193) they carried 2000lbs of bombs. 48 Mosquitos failed to return. Daylight bombing by Mosquitoes was called off, while effective, was too costly.
The switch to night operations reduced losses drastically.
At some time the Mosquitos gained the underwing racks and could either extend range or carry 3000lbs of bombs. Bomb load selection was rather limited. They had a choice of 500lb bombs or.................500lb bombs. OK, they could substitute 250lb bombs on a 1 for 1 basis for the 250lb bombs. No sticking eight 250lbs bombs in the bomb bay. They probably could have figured out a way to stick incendiaries in the bomb bay but why bother. The density of incendiaries to weight means a rather low payload.
1st operational use of the 4,000lb cookie was 23rd Feb 1944 which was in the middle of the 8th Air force (and RAF) Big Week.
The Mosquito B.MKXVI with Merlin 72s and pressure cabin showed up 5th March 1944.
The above is one of my pet peeves about the capabilities of US bombers in WWII (in any theater). According to one source the US dropped under 250 of the 1600lb bombs in Europe during WW II. They were, for all practical purposes, none existent and suck up way more time, space, band width, paper and ink than they were worth.
The B-17s of the 303rd bomb group dropped 16 British 250lb incendiary bombs during the Aug 17th 1943 Schweinfurt raid.
With improved supply the US was suppling their own incendiary bombs and a common one was the M47/M47A1 which went around 85-93 (?)lbs depending on the filling used.
B-17 could carry as many as 40 of these but that might depend on the racks fitted to the plane and/or actual availability at the base.
B-17s could and did carry a pair of 2000lb HE inside the bomb bay.
Going back to the " Mosquito did their load with 1/2 the number of engines and 1/5 the number of crew plus a lower loss rate. "
Use the Mosquito in daylight and use 250lb incendiary bombs. You need 2 1/2 planes, 5 engines, 5 crewmen and loss rate is ?????
That is using 6 250lb incendiaries per Mosquito.
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 779
- Sep 30, 2021
According to the War Production Board Report production of the 1,600 pound AP bomb was 11,119 for the Army (Sep 42, Jan to Dec 43, May 44), 10,444 for the Navy (Jan 42 to Oct 43, Jun and Jul 44). According to the USAAF Statistical Digest 1,122 dropped in theatres against Germany in 1944.
Bomber Command Losses Series has 59 Mosquito losses on day bombing and anti shipping raids to 27 May 1943, cross referenced to the Luftwaffe fighter claims, 4 Collision, 5 crashed, 1 engine failure, 18 fighter, 16 flak, 14 shot down, 1 take off accident, most of the shot down would be to flak in keeping with the low level tactics.
Official Bomber Command Mosquito bombs dropped, includes the fighter bombers.
776x4000 lb HC
141x4000 lb MC
7,469x4000 lb M2
12x1000 lb MC
2x1000 lb GP
31,357x500 lb MC
11,763x500 lb GP
18x500 lb USA
778x250 lb GP
4x250 lb MC
104x40 lb AP
72x20 lb AP
532x20 lb Frag
Incendiary
347x1000 lb TI
17x500 lb Smoke
16,632x250 lb TI
396x250 lb Spot Fire
32x250 lb TI Float
8x4000 lb
62x250 lb
10x100 lb Smoke
128x30 lb
14x20 lb FB
18,866x4 lb
280x4 lb X
6,678xNo. 14 cluster (106 x 4 lb)
3,160xNo. 15 cluster (158 x 4 lb)
10,150xNapalm Gallons (6.5 pounds per gallon)
Mines (The 22x250 lb TI and 5x250 lb spot fire dropped on mining operations are probably included above.)
27x1500 lb
72x1000 lb
The fighter bombers responsible for the 250lb MC the AP and Frag, plus most of the 4lb incendiaries, all the clusters and napalm.
Monthly reports for bomber operations (not fighter bomber) total 171 missing, 100 Cat E (81 not enemy action), 46 Cat B, 158 Cat AC damage
Bomber Command Losses Series has 59 Mosquito losses on day bombing and anti shipping raids to 27 May 1943, cross referenced to the Luftwaffe fighter claims, 4 Collision, 5 crashed, 1 engine failure, 18 fighter, 16 flak, 14 shot down, 1 take off accident, most of the shot down would be to flak in keeping with the low level tactics.
Official Bomber Command Mosquito bombs dropped, includes the fighter bombers.
776x4000 lb HC
141x4000 lb MC
7,469x4000 lb M2
12x1000 lb MC
2x1000 lb GP
31,357x500 lb MC
11,763x500 lb GP
18x500 lb USA
778x250 lb GP
4x250 lb MC
104x40 lb AP
72x20 lb AP
532x20 lb Frag
Incendiary
347x1000 lb TI
17x500 lb Smoke
16,632x250 lb TI
396x250 lb Spot Fire
32x250 lb TI Float
8x4000 lb
62x250 lb
10x100 lb Smoke
128x30 lb
14x20 lb FB
18,866x4 lb
280x4 lb X
6,678xNo. 14 cluster (106 x 4 lb)
3,160xNo. 15 cluster (158 x 4 lb)
10,150xNapalm Gallons (6.5 pounds per gallon)
Mines (The 22x250 lb TI and 5x250 lb spot fire dropped on mining operations are probably included above.)
27x1500 lb
72x1000 lb
The fighter bombers responsible for the 250lb MC the AP and Frag, plus most of the 4lb incendiaries, all the clusters and napalm.
Monthly reports for bomber operations (not fighter bomber) total 171 missing, 100 Cat E (81 not enemy action), 46 Cat B, 158 Cat AC damage
Interesting to see the average bomb load increasing for not even a change to Lancasters.
I believe this was down to OR basically calculating that though more bombers would get shot down with a heavier bomb load, this would be beneficial in terms of total tonnage of bombs dropped.
This may have been great for BC as a whole but obviously not for the individual crews whose chance of survival in a tour diminished accordingly.
Hence the reports of bombs being dropped in the channel so they could get the performance back over Germany.
Personally, I think this move is counter effective and they should have concentrated on more accuracy and preservation of the skills of existing crews.
Why talk about Wellingtons, B-17s or Mosquitos? You are comparing prunes to plums to oranges...
By early 1944, the ultimate High Altitude bomber of WW2 was already in operation - the B-29. Everything before it were never "high altitude" bombers - they were bombers that were called upon to operate sometimes at something called "high altitude" with the resulting inaccuracies and misery for the crews. The war in Europe never required a very long range bomber and as for the high altitude issue, had the Germans had the ME 262 in large numbers (and longer range and more reliable engines - yeah, I know, what if....) in 1944, even the B-29 would have had problems.
By early 1944, the ultimate High Altitude bomber of WW2 was already in operation - the B-29. Everything before it were never "high altitude" bombers - they were bombers that were called upon to operate sometimes at something called "high altitude" with the resulting inaccuracies and misery for the crews. The war in Europe never required a very long range bomber and as for the high altitude issue, had the Germans had the ME 262 in large numbers (and longer range and more reliable engines - yeah, I know, what if....) in 1944, even the B-29 would have had problems.
Shortround6
Major General
High altitude Wellington with pressure cabin. 63 built.
One late model Mosquito (MK XVI) had a pressure cabin. Several hundred built. Could and did carry the 4,000lb bomb.
B-29s were not any more accurate at high altitude than a B-17 even though the crew was not only more comfortable, they were at much less health risk.
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