Highest Scoring Airframe?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by mike siggins, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. mike siggins

    mike siggins Member

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    does any body know the higest scoring airframe planes the most planes shot down by a single plane
     
  2. mike siggins

    mike siggins Member

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    i beleive it was a brewster buffalo
     
  3. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    Just a guess -- Bf-109.
     
  4. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    I would agree with the 109.....
     
  5. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    Upon reflection the Buffalo with the Finns could be very much in the running
     
  6. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    from wiki.....

    The Bf 109 was credited with more aerial kills than any other aircraft. One hundred and five (possibly 109) Bf 109 pilots were credited with the destruction of 100 or more enemy aircraft. Thirteen of these men scored more than 200 kills, while two scored more than 300. Altogether this group were credited with nearly 15,000 kills between them. Official ace status was granted to any pilot who scored five or more kills. Applying this to Luftwaffe fighter pilots and their records reveals that "Ace" status belonged to more than 2,500 German pilots. Against Soviets, the Finnish-flown Bf 109Gs claimed a victory ratio of 25:1 in favour of the Finns.
     
  7. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    I would tend to go along with a Bf109 airframe
    but how easy is it going to be to corroborate this? Victories were attributed to the pilot, not the airframe which was regarded as little more than an expendable consumable; would any records be kept for aerial victories vs airframe serial number? I don't believe there were many 'sentimental old fools' around at the time, recording this aspect of WWII history.

    It's barely do-able, with manufacture date and SOC date (or loss date), and all the squadrons/JGs that it served in in between those dates but even that's pushing it. You'd need records like Morgan Shacklady's Spitfire: The History, only for all combat types and then in-depth volumes of unit activity for the same type.

    Only my opinion, I think it would take some doing.
     
  8. claidemore

    claidemore Member

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    #8 claidemore, Jan 21, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    Finnish Brewster BW-364 is credited with 42 1/2 kills by all the different pilots who flew it.
    This quote from Wiki: After evaluation of claims against Soviet actual losses, aircraft No. BW-364 was credited with 42½ kills in total by all pilots operating it, possibly making it the highest-scoring fighter airframe in the history of air warfare.
    Another source credits BW-393 with 41 kills. If anybody is good at counting, this site has a list:
    http://www.warbirdforum.com/scores.htm
     
  9. MikeGazdik

    MikeGazdik Member

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    With so many multiple kill missions and his short span of flying, what about Marseille. Im sure he flew several different airframes, but one of his BF109's could be in the running.
     
  10. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    Don't think the 109 (or any aircraft coming from a country that mass produced aircraft) would work. Changes in models, design, upgrades usually meant an aircraft were expected to last only a couple 100hrs. Spitfires, Mustangs, 109s, ect. were usually run very hard and put away wet. If they weren't destroyed or damaged to writeoff status, they usually ended up on training. They were just worn out.

    However (there's always a however), some German aces did shoot down a large number of aircraft on a single day. I think Hartman got 17 one day. And the same could be said of Marseilles. Also, David McCambell shot down 38, all of them flying the F6F. I think it was during one cruise. He definitely shot down 9 at one time in the same aircraft. So, there are options for airframes that shot down a large number of aircraft at one time being in the running.

    But a country like Finland didn't have to option of getting new airframes from a home factory, so they had to rebuild and made do. Upgrading or changing to fit local product availabilities. I would imagine there were other airframes in the Fin airforce that also had 10+ kills on them. If the Brewster wasn't the highest scoring, it was definitely the highest scoring for multiple pilots.
     
  11. Timppa

    Timppa Active Member

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    It is quite possible that some Bf109, especially on the Eastern front, surpassed the BW-364.
    Hartmann got 58 victories in a time span of just over one month, July 5- Aug 9 of 1943. Same plane ?
     
  12. claidemore

    claidemore Member

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    Several reasons why that would be unlikely, though certainly not impossible.
    First, that was during the Kursk air battles, the biggest air battles of the entire war. The likelihood of receiving combat damage, (air or ground), was pretty high.
    Second, Luftwaffe pilots were flying multiple sorites per day, so airframes and engines were accumulating hours quickly. Short time period in days, but several hours of use per day, and it's summer, so 16 or 17 hours of daylight.
    Third, even without combat damage, a favorite plane would need to be pulled off the line for service.
    Fourth, that would be 58 claims, not verified kills from sources on both sides. Given the confusion of that huge battle, even a die hard Hartmann fan would have to divide that number by half.
    So while it's possible, without evidence, it's a hunch at best.
    The Finn records on the other hand are pretty convincing evidence.
     
  13. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I think that Buffalo has it although Marseillies had a run for the honor in Sept. '42.

    Here's athought - based on gunner claims, which B-17 or B-24 had the most 'kills'? Those airframes were used constantly.
     
  14. bigZ

    bigZ Member

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    Just a thought. How about one of the Spitfires or Hurricanes operating from Malta?
     
  15. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    While I can't back it up with some hard evidence, I don't see this as a possibility.
     
  16. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    Agreed. Lot of opportunity, but the airframes were used up as fast as the pilots. Would be the same for Guadalcanal or the Flying Tigers. Plenty of opportunity, but the wear and tare must've been brutal.

    Although it is a good idea to consider the perspective. Maybe some of the Zero airframes from the first 6 months of the pacific might qualify. The Japanese did not make a lot of them and they saw an enormous amount of combat from the Phillipines to Darwin. Same could be said of the Zeroes on the Carries from Kido Butai. A lot of air combat there.
     
  17. slaterat

    slaterat Member

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    Charles Barker's Sopwith Camel B6313 is credited with 46 ea and balloons destroyed during WW I. Apparently the highest total of any RAF airframe.

    Slaterat
     
  18. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    Wasn't there a Luftwaffe Pilot who shot down something like 70 Russian aircraft in 75 sorties? I think it was around the time of the battle of Kursk.

    That one would have to be up there in the list, if anyone can specifically find the listing of confirmed credits matched to the airframe.
     
  19. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    Do we know that he got off the ground in the same aircraft for all 75 sorties? Seems improbable that it wasn't pulled for servicing/maintenance/combat damage at least once in that time.
     
  20. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    Agreed. All of them in the same aircraft is a very, very long shot. Matter of fact, probably impossible. I'm guessing he used several aircraft. Still, it is a possiblity.

    I think he flew FW 190s. Ended up crashing into a Lagg and that was it, or maybe it blew up and took him with it.
     
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