'Hitler's Stealth Fighter' on National Geographic

Soren · Jul 17, 2009

A4K,

That depends on wether th Go-229 stays powered by Jumo 004's or not, and if it did fly up till the 50's then I'd bet it would equipped with more powerful engines, and so would've likely been very competitive if not better than th othere jets of the 50's.

As for the stealth, it wsa not intentional from the beginning, but as the Brothers by accident discovered the low radar signature of the a/c they introduced radar absorbant paint which was to be put on the production a/c and was also used on the V3.

A4K · Jul 18, 2009

G'day mate!

Just my opinion, but even if they replaced the Jumo OO4s with more reliable and powerful engines, you're still looking at the weight and fuel requirements of two engines as opposed to the single engines of her competitors, not to mention the running costs...
I have a suspicion a MiG -15 could have out-turned her too, in the way a Bf109, though not as fast or graceful looking, could out-turn a Spitfire. Something about the slight unstableness of the design that added that touch of extra agility.
Taking both the above into consideration though, she might have been an effective ground attack (Schlacht) aircraft, but IMO she would have been outclassed as a fighter.

Haven't been able to be on here for a while, but was it PROVEN or just speculated that the Horten's came up with a 'radar absorbent' paint once they 'stumbled onto' it's low radar signature?? Sounds a little fishy to me...

RabidAlien · Jul 18, 2009

I'd imagine that as technical breakthroughs came, that the 229 would be upgraded all over, not just the engines. I think she'd be able to hold her own for quite awhile.

A4K · Jul 18, 2009

You could be right RA...would like to think she could perform as well as she looks..!

Have a good week guys, I'm going to be on leave till Friday, so see yas then!

vikingBerserker · Jul 18, 2009

Have fun A4K!

Soren · Jul 19, 2009

A4K said:
G'day mate!

Just my opinion, but even if they replaced the Jumo OO4s with more reliable and powerful engines, you're still looking at the weight and fuel requirements of two engines as opposed to the single engines of her competitors, not to mention the running costs...
I have a suspicion a MiG -15 could have out-turned her too, in the way a Bf109, though not as fast or graceful looking, could out-turn a Spitfire. Something about the slight unstableness of the design that added that touch of extra agility.
Taking both the above into consideration though, she might have been an effective ground attack (Schlacht) aircraft, but IMO she would have been outclassed as a fighter.

Hehe, the MIG-15 would certainly not outturn the Ho/Go-229. Turn performance is one thing that the Go-229 would for sure excell at, and it is highly likely that it could even outturn a A6M Zero. It's in essence just one big thick wing, which is gonna be able to produce A LOT of lift.

As for the Bf-109 vs Spitfire example. Well both were rather stable designs, and only certain version Bf-109's would outturn certain version Spitfires and vice versa. The advantage slipped back and forth through the 5 years of the war.

Haven't been able to be on here for a while, but was it PROVEN or just speculated that the Horten's came up with a 'radar absorbent' paint once they 'stumbled onto' it's low radar signature?? Sounds a little fishy to me...

Horten said so himself that they developed a special type of charcoal paint which was meant to absorb radar waves. It was tested and found to work by the Germans, and then tested again by the Northrop team and once more found to work.

As to how much the special paint would've reduced the radar signature alone, well IMO probably not a whole lot, maybe 10%..

FLYBOYJ · Jul 19, 2009

Soren said:
Hehe, the MIG-15 would certainly not outturn the Ho/Go-229.

Based on ????

The Go 229 had half the wing loading of the MiG-15 but the MiG-15 had twice the thrust to weight ratio, it was also lighter. Also consider performance at various altitudes.

Soren · Jul 20, 2009

FLYBOYJ said:
Based on ????

The Go 229 had half the wing loading of the MiG-15 but the MiG-15 had twice the thrust to weight ratio, it was also lighter. Also consider performance at various altitudes.

That the Go-229 possesses half the wing loading pretty much makes sure that it will turn tighter than the MIG-15. Also remember how much thicker the Go-229's wing is, it's gonna produce a whole lot more lift pr. area than the thin wing of the MIG-15. In short the MIG-15 will certainly not outturn the Go-229, atleast not at its best combat altitudes.

T/W ratio is ofcourse also important, esp. when it comes to sustained maneuvers, so in climbing maneuvers the MIG-15 would be able to hold its own.

The MIG-15 didn't quite have twice the T/W ratio of the Go-229 as you say however.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 20, 2009

Soren said:
That the Go-229 possesses half the wing loading pretty much makes sure that it will turn tighter than the MIG-15. Also remember how much thicker the Go-229's wing is, it's gonna produce a whole lot more lift pr. area than the thin wing of the MIG-15. In short the MIG-15 will certainly not outturn the Go-229, atleast not at its best combat altitudes.

I think some calcualted data will have to be attained to prove that point

Soren said:
T/W ratio is ofcourse also important, esp. when it comes to sustained maneuvers, so in climbing maneuvers the MIG-15 would be able to hold its own.

The MIG-15 didn't quite have twice the T/W ratio of the Go-229 as you say however.

Thrust/weight: 0.54 - MiG-15

Thrust/weight: 0.26 - Go 229

The MiG-15 also had almost double the climb rate.

Soren · Jul 20, 2009

FLYBOYJ said:
I think some calcualted data will have to be attained to prove that point

If we wanna know the max sustained turn rate of both then yes. But the Go-229 does have a far higher initial turn rate by virtue of its far higher lift to weight ratio. The higher the L/W ratio the less thrust is also needed to power through any turn.

Thrust/weight: 0.54 - MiG-15

Thrust/weight: 0.26 - Go 229

The MiG-15 also had almost double the climb rate.

You're right about the T/W ratio, I used a higher weight for the MIG-15, 5700 kg, but it seems the actual weight was infact around 4,900 kg.

'Hitler's Stealth Fighter' on National Geographic

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