How good (or bad) was the P-38, really?

[Peter Gunn]

Hardly.

Starting at the 1:05 mark approximately to the 3:00 mark, although I don't agree that Wildcats were faster.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Starting at the 1:05 mark approximately to the 3:00 mark, although I don't agree that Wildcats were faster.

"P-400s had no oxygen equipment." Removed with the IFF and "excessive" armor!

 

[P-39 Expert]

Read the after mission reports of 18th and 49th FG in SWP and 325th in MTO in support of P-400/P-39 strikes.

P-40s were escorting P-39s because they were attacking tanks with their cannon. P-39 altitude performance was always better than contemporary P-40 performance. P-39 was 750lbs lighter with the same engine. The single stage Merlin P-40 had just about the same performance as a -36/-63 engined P-39 and a lot less performance than a P-39N. In no universe did contemporary P-40 performance match the P-39. Period.

 

[fubar57]

 

[pbehn]

View attachment 638198​

It was a good answer, but to a different question.

 

[P-39 Expert]

"P-400s had no oxygen equipment." Removed with the IFF and "excessive" armor!

Seriously??? The oxygen equipment was not removed, it was British specified equipment and incompatible with what the Marines had at Guadalcanal. So they had no oxygen. As far as the F4F being faster see the chart below. The P-39 was 40mph faster at altitude and climbed the same on normal power as the F4F did on combat power. The 1942 P-39 on combat power (blue dots) climbed 600fpm (27%) faster at 20000' than the F4F. The F4F could not touch a 1942 P-39, period.

Now the Marine pilots were better trained, especially in combating the IJN. And they had oxygen. And they weren't carrying drop tanks. But an F4F was no match for any 7650lb P-39.

 

[fubar57]

So much for this P-38 thread

 

[drgondog]

P-40s were escorting P-39s because they were attacking tanks with their cannon. P-39 altitude performance was always better than contemporary P-40 performance. P-39 was 750lbs lighter with the same engine. The single stage Merlin P-40 had just about the same performance as a -36/-63 engined P-39 and a lot less performance than a P-39N. In no universe did contemporary P-40 performance match the P-39. Period.

The P-40L (w/1650-1) in use in those missions had much better high altitude (i.e 20K), and better bomb load capability, and P-39 less capable of defending itself.

Not many tanks in use by Japanese Army and the tanks in use by Germans weren't overly concerned with the 37mm.

 

[GrauGeist]

Seriously??? The oxygen equipment was not removed, it was British specified equipment and incompatible with what the Marines had at Guadalcanal. So they had no oxygen. As far as the F4F being faster see the chart below. The P-39 was 40mph faster at altitude and climbed the same on normal power as the F4F did on combat power. The 1942 P-39 on combat power (blue dots) climbed 600fpm (27%) faster at 20000' than the F4F. The F4F could not touch a 1942 P-39, period.

Now the Marine pilots were better trained, especially in combating the IJN. And they had oxygen. And they weren't carrying drop tanks. But an F4F was no match for any 7650lb P-39.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Seriously??? The oxygen equipment was not removed, it was British specified equipment and incompatible with what the Marines had at Guadalcanal.

Marines??? You mean what the AAF had at Guadalcanal. It was a Marine base but the aircraft belonged to and were maintained by AAF personnel. I guess your "expertise" in knowing the difference between the armed services is apparent.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Seriously??? The oxygen equipment was not removed, it was British specified equipment and incompatible with what the Marines had at Guadalcanal. So they had no oxygen. As far as the F4F being faster see the chart below. The P-39 was 40mph faster at altitude and climbed the same on normal power as the F4F did on combat power. The 1942 P-39 on combat power (blue dots) climbed 600fpm (27%) faster at 20000' than the F4F. The F4F could not touch a 1942 P-39, period.

Now the Marine pilots were better trained, especially in combating the IJN. And they had oxygen. And they weren't carrying drop tanks. But an F4F was no match for any 7650lb P-39.

Now please refrain from any more P-39 nonsense on this thread, you can Blab all you want on the P-39 thread

 

[33k in the air]

Marines??? You mean what the AAF had at Guadalcanal. It was a Marine base but the aircraft belonged to and were maintained by AAF personnel. I guess your "expertise" in knowing the difference between the armed services is apparent.

Come now, when you've seen one armed service, you've seen them all, right?

 

[P-39 Expert]

The P-40L (w/1650-1) in use in those missions had much better high altitude (i.e 20K), and better bomb load capability, and P-39 less capable of defending itself.

Not many tanks in use by Japanese Army and the tanks in use by Germans weren't overly concerned with the 37mm.

Marines??? You mean what the AAF had at Guadalcanal. It was a Marine base but the aircraft belonged to and were maintained by AAF personnel. I guess your "expertise" in knowing the difference between the armed services is apparent.

So why no oxygen?

 

[pbehn]

So why no oxygen?

Why no P-38? There is a thread for P-39 stuff.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Damn, Now I've got to buy another book.
P-39s in MTO used primarily as CAS with P-40s or Spitfires as top cover. P-38s were busy escorting B-17s, B-25s and B-26s

 

[XBe02Drvr]

So why no oxygen?

Because the P400s were originally built for the Brits and had British style oxygen systems which were incompatible with American equipment.

 

[special ed]

I resisted the answer to this because I would have told him the answer would be on the P-39 thread. The answer about the British oxy fittings is in a book about Guadalcanal.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

So why no oxygen?

Well if you read the pilot's manual as well as a bunch of other primary flight training information, you'll find that a standard for the use of oxygen is at 12,000' (might be as low as 10,000 feet in some theaters) and it seems the P-400s were operationally limited to that altitude and below, so now you can figure out more reasons why. Now that you know this fact this will be the last response you'll get from me on this thread and all your other posts regarding P-39 dribble on this thread will either be moved or deleted.

 

[Peter Gunn]

One thing I never seem to see addressed is the generator on the P-38, much is made of the two engine reliability but if you lost the engine that had the generator...

I remember reading a P-38 pilot's story over New Guinea where that happened, his tale of baling out and meeting friendly and many unfriendly natives was quite a story.

He was cursing both Lockheed and the AAF for not putting generators on both engines, so which model (if any) finally got two generators?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

One thing I never seem to see addressed is the generator on the P-38, much is made of the two engine reliability but if you lost the engine that had the generator...

I remember reading a P-38 pilot's story over New Guinea where that happened, his tale of baling out and meeting friendly and many unfriendly natives was quite a story.

He was cursing both Lockheed and the AAF for not putting generators on both engines, so which model (if any) finally got two generators?

Some issues -

You lose a generator, you lose power to the electrical system, the engines receive their ignition power through magnetos and will keep running (as long as you have fuel) despite the status of the generator, so there has to be more to the story