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??? So the LW was on its last legs in fall 1943? The factories were devastated? Schweinfurt and Regensburg were laid to rest and German industry shut down in fall 1943?In the ETO the P-38 was the starting pitcher in long range escort missions. The Mustang was the relief pitcher and came in after the Luftwaffe was on it's last legs because the escorted bombers had devastated their factories etc. The Lightning fought the best of the best while outnumber while the P-51 fought rookies and were allowed to do fighter sweeps hence their record of more kills.
The P-38 has been systematically denigrated to cover up the deadly errors of the Bomber Mafia.
To say the maintenance and high cost was a major problem in 1943 is an exaggeration as during that time the US was fighting the war with almost an open checkbook. As mentioned many times, General George Kenny couldn't get enough P-38s and had to briefly settle for P-47 because P-38s weren't available. Despite the intercooler and compressibility issues, the 1943 P-38G and Hs were still able to carry the fight, especially in the PTO where it's record speaks for itself. Lockheed LISTENED to it's customer and noted issues were addressed in the J and L.1943 P-38 had plenty of faults (intercoolers, low mach number, cockpit heat, high maintenance, high cost etc) but it did have range. 1943 P-47 was probably a better, more survivable weapon with it's own faults (climb, turn) but it did not have range.
In the ETO the P-38 was the starting pitcher in long range escort missions. The Mustang was the relief pitcher and came in after the Luftwaffe was on it's last legs because the escorted bombers had devastated their factories etc. The Lightning fought the best of the best while outnumber while the P-51 fought rookies and were allowed to do fighter sweeps hence their record of more kills.
The P-38 has been systematically denigrated to cover up the deadly errors of the Bomber Mafia.
I haven't laughed so hard since the P-39 thread.In the ETO the P-38 was the starting pitcher in long range escort missions. The Mustang was the relief pitcher and came in after the Luftwaffe was on it's last legs because the escorted bombers had devastated their factories etc. The Lightning fought the best of the best while outnumber while the P-51 fought rookies and were allowed to do fighter sweeps hence their record of more kills.
The P-38 has been systematically denigrated to cover up the deadly errors of the Bomber Mafia.
Hey! I'm not merry!??? So the LW was on its last legs in fall 1943? The factories were devastated? Schweinfurt and Regensburg were laid to rest and German industry shut down in fall 1943?
Hairog, we missed your introduction to our merry band of idiots that hold somewhat different views of the battle for control of German airspace before D-Day?
Can you elaborate more for those of us that obviously have no clue?
Even I know that.German industry was anything but on it's "last legs" by 1943 - their aircraft production in 1944 saw the highest numbers produced, more than any point since they started preparing for war in the 1930's.
German industry was anything but on it's "last legs" by 1943 - their aircraft production in 1944 saw the highest numbers produced, more than any point since they started preparing for war in the 1930's.
Fair enough.Annual figures can be somewhat deceptive. Monthly figures are more useful. On a monthly basis, German armaments production, as measured by Speer's armaments index, peaked in July of 1944 and fell off rapidly after that.
Such statistics are subject to the "lies, damned lies and statistics rule". On the Schweinfurt Regensburg raid it could be argued that the LW shot down as many aircraft as they possibly could at the time. So sending twice as many bombers would reduce the percentage losses by half. This was in part the basis of day and night time bombing campaigns. Without considering how many bombers were used and what they were doing the chart means little.In the ETO the P-38 was the starting pitcher in long range escort missions. The Mustang was the relief pitcher and came in after the Luftwaffe was on it's last legs because the escorted bombers had devastated their factories etc. The Lightning fought the best of the best while outnumber while the P-51 fought rookies and were allowed to do fighter sweeps hence their record of more kills.
The P-38 has been systematically denigrated to cover up the deadly errors of the Bomber Mafia.
I fear this is not going to end well. You look at the chart again and tell me how many bombers were in operation, not a percentage of losses. 1 bomber lost from a flight of 10 is 10%, 10 bombers lost from 1,000 is 1%.Sorry, I thought the chart and the quote below it were pretty easy to comprehend. I'll dumb it down from now on.
Look at the chart again
I remember watching a show on the Military History Channel (I don't remember which one) where a P-38 pilot (I don't remember who) was diving with a FW-190 on his tail; when his altitude got low enough to force him to level off, he used differential thrust and crossed controls to put the airplane into a skid; as the FW-190 shot past him, he straightened his plane out, applied full throttle and shot the FW-190 down. I remember wondering if he had practiced that maneuver, came up with it on the spot, or maybe had time to think of it during the dive? Any way you look at it, it was a helluva piece of flying.I don't recall that being used in combat with the P-38, though I've read many accounts of bombers having to resort to that procedure in order to steer their ship after catastrophic damage.
In order to manipulate the P-38's engines indepently, the throttle quadrant had to be uncoupled and then each throttle maneuvered in order to perform the needed move(s) - that is a rather complex procedure in the heat of battle.
When did the US forces start bombing missions only with P-38s as escorts? That is without Spitfires, P-47s and P-51s?The chart and percentage of loss means a great deal. The difference of 7 vs 3% loss rate saved the daylight bombing campaign. Do the math, you had virtually no chance of flying 25 missions and surviving with 7% losses. Moral was in the toilet because the bomber crews could do the math.