How "not" to use submarines

[Freebird]

I was gonna ask if there were commerce lanes west of hawaii. Thanks Sys. Maybe all they had were warships to contend with.

Not only the commerce lanes to Australia/NZ, but remember that each division in active combat uses 600 - 700 tons of supplies per day, so you need 3 6,000 ton freighters per month for each division in combat. Then you consider the logistical needs for the air force, support troops etc. Also the US Navy (and every Navy) has to keep a constant chain of fleet oilers to keep the ships supplied when operating away from base. Destroyers especially do not carry much fuel, and need frequent supply. The "Neosho" from Coral sea was one of these fleet "oilers"

My point of course is the IJN submarines should have been deployed doing something useful.

Would it have changed the war? I dont know but I do know our commerce fleet was heavily stressed in the first few years of war by the U-boats. That, and the Pacific was light on DDs due to the Atlantic U-boat threat.

So one has to assume in adopting a meaningful battle doctrine for their U-boats the IJN would have had a bigger impact. In that era U-boats really shined when attacking merchant shipping. I know they sunk some capitol ships but when you compared the losses between the two the WW-ll submarine was over matched when up against capitol warships. Especially later in the war when sonar, radar, and escort CVs became the norm.

Very interesting questions, Rich

 

[syscom3]

I think the support troops took up 66% of all the material and manpower expenditures in the Pacific.

As for IJN wolf packs, I would have a "team" of 3 or more boats stationed in the following area's to tie up US escorts:

Between Hawaii and The US Mainland

Off of Baja California

Southeast of Hawaii extending to the French possessions

Near the Panama Canal

 

[Haztoys]

I think the support troops took up 66% of all the material and manpower expenditures in the Pacific.

As for IJN wolf packs, I would have a "team" of 3 or more boats stationed in the following area's to tie up US escorts:

Between Hawaii and The US Mainland

Off of Baja California

Southeast of Hawaii extending to the French possessions

Near the Panama Canal

When they attacked Pearl Harbor...A mess of subs would of finished the job the aircraft missed...Namely the Aircraft Carriers...But as the Japanese did at that time ...They "think' there plan is fool prof...

 

[renrich]

Japan never had any chance to win a war against the US. They had not the manpower, raw materials, industrial capacity or even leadership to prevail. For them to challenge the US was the same as a mouse crawling up an elephant's leg with rape on it's mind.

 

[renrich]

The IJN had a number of I boats outside of Pearl on 7 Dec plus the midgets. They sank nothing!

 

[Freebird]

The IJN had a number of I boats outside of Pearl on 7 Dec plus the midgets. They sank nothing!

Of course not there was nothing outside the harbour! And the cargo ships were hardly going to set out during the attack.

My point of course is the IJN submarines should have been deployed doing something useful.

Would it have changed the war? I dont know but I do know our commerce fleet was heavily stressed in the first few years of war by the U-boats. That, and the Pacific was light on DDs due to the Atlantic U-boat threat.

I think Rich was right, the IJN could have done much more with their subs

 

[renrich]

Freebird, there were DDs and auxilleries going in and out of the harbor that day after the attack and Enterprise and Lexington came in in a few days along with their escorts. I don't believe the I boats pulled out right after the attack.

 

[Freebird]

Freebird, there were DDs and auxilleries going in and out of the harbor that day after the attack and Enterprise and Lexington came in in a few days along with their escorts. I don't believe the I boats pulled out right after the attack.

I think they must have, otherwise there would be some record of them attempting an attack? It's more difficult of course because the base would have been on full alert. That's why targeting other harbours would have been more prudent.

 

[renrich]

Well, obviously all the USN ships after the attack must have been on the qui vive.