How would the Allies have dealt with large numbers of ME 262s?

[Erich]

the futuristic Me 262 B night fighter variants were to have swept back wings if this helps or confuses......

 

[GrauGeist]

Right, Willy wanted the HG series to have the true swept wing and the engines moved inboard towards the wing-root...and one version of the HG design was to have a "V" tail...

Would have been interesting to see how it performed

 

[Erich]

it went beyond Willi to his techs working with leading 262 pilots late war, the body was to be more streamline and the canopy flattened, inboard air ducts at the wing roots. have stats somewhere of the tunnel tests as what the future was to hold for speed limits - impressive for the time ........

 

[bobbysocks]

They tried that and it was a dismal failure...they were so heavy with thier extra guns, turrets and ammo, the regular bombers left them in the dust after dropping thier bombs.

Only good thing that came out of that adventure, was the chin turret that eventually found it's way onto the B-17G models

yeah i know that...i said it in some vain attempt to get the thread back OT.... how silly i am.

 

[GrauGeist]

it went beyond Willi to his techs working with leading 262 pilots late war, the body was to be more streamline and the canopy flattened, inboard air ducts at the wing roots. have stats somewhere of the tunnel tests as what the future was to hold for speed limits - impressive for the time ........

They were looking at a three-man crew for some versions of the HG series, if I remember right

yeah i know that...i said it in some vain attempt to get the thread back OT.... how silly i am.

lol...it seemed to work

 

[mhuxt]

Can anyone ID the 262 in this colour guncam clip, apparently from the 362nd FG, April 1945:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf5i0D9yio4

I'd not seen it before, and I thought I'd drained YouTube of every second of camera footage...

 

[Erich]

Mark

the 362nd Mogun's Maulers was not given any confirmation for a downing of a 262 during the war, so one wonders what outfit 9th or 8th this portion of film may be from.... ?

 

[mhuxt]

Yeah, that's part of what has me confused, the title boards say April '45, Y-64 which I believe is Mainz-Finthen.

 

[Erich]

for April of 45 I see the 9th AF P-47's shooting down 4 262's. 365th, 368th and 370th fg's.

 

[stona]

The title board would be shot before a film unit started filming to identify the footage (roll number, where shot, camera man) after development. It's still done today, though not with a "chalk board". It has nothing to do with the gun camera footage which is like an archaeological artefact out of context. I have no idea why someone inserted it into that sequence. Unless someone somewhere has the original date and unit from which the gun camera footage came we'll never know the identity of the Me 262 or the attacking aircraft.
It's a nice bit of film, but historically not terribly valuable in terms of the information to be gleaned from it.
Cheers
Steve

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Also says the combat was shortly after take off. However, it looks like the aircraft have some altitude (especially the T-Bolt) and both appear to be in a somewhat nose down attitude. Perhaps the 262, having recently taken off was climbing and when attacked by the T-Bolt put his nose down to pick up speed. This might be an example of a 'T-Bolt" diving from a higher altitude and staying with the 262 until its own speed bled off. However, since the t-Bolt doesn't appear to raise its nose much i would guess it's not losing speed so much as the 262 is just accelerating away. The 262 at first appears to open some distance before its engine was either hit or failed. Looking at it again, it may just be the smoke emitted by the 262 that obscures it and makes it appear to pull away.

Interesting video!

 

[nuuumannn]

it went beyond Willi to his techs working with leading 262 pilots late war, the body was to be more streamline and the canopy flattened, inboard air ducts at the wing roots.

Here's someone's rather impressive rendition:

Messerschmitt Me 262 HG III/ Entwurf III 1/48

Vogt was working on wind tunnel models of basic aerodynamic P.1065 shapes with sharply swept wings as well.

 

[Erich]

nice what-if................ if the builder would of moved the canopy/cockpit forward it would of looked quite a bit like the Me 262 HG III.

 

[fastmongrel]

Here's someone's rather impressive rendition:

Messerschmitt Me 262 HG III/ Entwurf III 1/48

Vogt was working on wind tunnel models of basic aerodynamic P.1065 shapes with sharply swept wings as well.

That would have been fun to land zero forward view

 

[swampyankee]

That would have been fun to land zero forward view

I suspect that it would have been difficult enough to keep it moving in a straight line on takeoff. And I'll bet vmc​ was quite high...

 

[nuuumannn]

I suspect that it would have been difficult enough to keep it moving in a straight line on takeoff. And I'll bet vmc was quite high...

Very small fin/rudder area would have produced all sorts of problems.

 

[RAGMAN]

i always wondered if the lightning could have taken rolls royce engines or griffin engines ... they increased the speed of the p-51 i was wondering if it would have done the same to the p-38 ?

 

[nuuumannn]

Rolls-Royce built the Griffon (note tha spelng). I don't really see why that would be necessay; the Lightning was pretty darn good with the turbocharged Allisons.

 

[GregP]

They did a study on it and concluded the potential gain was not worth the effort or cost. The Allisons, once the intake, European fuel issue, and pilot training were done, were just fine, The only real issue left was the low critical Mach number and the Merlins wouldn't have changed it at all.

Personally I would like have seen a Merlin-engined XP-40Q with a 2-stage MNerlin in it. I think we would have had something there.

 

[pattern14]

back to the original premise of the thread.....I just finished reading another book by a fellow called William N. Hess, titled "German jets versus the U.S. Army Air Force", published by Specialty press publishers in the United States. It uses a diary like format to document the encounters with Luftwaffe Jets up until the end of WW2 in Europe. Being curious, I looked up Mr Hess's background, and it does appear he has some credibility to write about the subject. He was a gunner on a B17, got shot down after 16 missions and ended up a POW. Post war he was involved in maintenance and mechanical training on P51's and B29's, and has written 25 books on the subject. When the book was published in 1996, he was the Official Historian of the American fighter aces association. The book is obviously written from an American perspective, but remains balanced and objective throughout. He certainly regards the Me 262 as a formidable opponent, making the P51 "Obsolete", and stating that " the allied fighter pilots were intensely aware of the fighters superiority". His perspective from the bombers point of view is also something that tends to get over looked in favour of the fighter Vs fighter thing. He states that U.S pilots were credited with 165 Jets downed, which I believe includes the Komet, and Arado Ar234. No mention is made of the He 162, although there are accounts of combat from the British and German sources in other publications. All in all, another good book for the reference library.