Hurricane has an accident

Airframes · Oct 10, 2015

Yep, I agree.

nuuumannn · Oct 12, 2015

I believe that the wheel shattered, letting the tire run away and the gear's axle/bearing assembly struck the ground first, gave way and then the fireworks begins.

Likely Dave, but I don't know why the hub would shatter if its not in contact with the ground - hubs are fairly robust structures designed to take that kind of impact and worse on a regular basis, it'd have to have been seriously compromised to shatter. If it did come in contact with the ground, the tyre would most likely burst. I still think that's the whole wheel assy bouncing away, not just the tyre.

gumbyk · Oct 12, 2015

I can't work out how the leg wouldn't have dug in if there wasn't a hub still on it.
The only explanation that I can come up with is that the bolts holding the wheel halves together failed somehow, allowing the tyre to come off, but still retaining some of the hub to roll on. As far-fetched as it sounds.

nuuumannn · Oct 12, 2015

I can't work out how the leg wouldn't have dug in if there wasn't a hub still on it.

Because of the forward motion of the aircraft - it's not going that fast. How is the tyre going to rip itself off the hub intact? It wouldn't. The tyre would blow if it was subject to that amount of force that it could be ripped off the hub. I've seen it happen on an A320 doing a heavy landing; the tyre burst into flames and tore itself to shreds.

GrauGeist · Oct 12, 2015

nuuumannn said:
Likely Dave, but I don't know why the hub would shatter if its not in contact with the ground - hubs are fairly robust structures designed to take that kind of impact and worse on a regular basis, it'd have to have been seriously compromised to shatter. If it did come in contact with the ground, the tyre would most likely burst. I still think that's the whole wheel assy bouncing away, not just the tyre.

If the tire were flat as he touched down, the alloy wheel can only handle so much force before it fails.

I've gone over the video a few times and there is a definately sizeable, light colored debris that flies away from the gear just before the tire comes away and heads off on it's own.

As the Hurricane rolls out, you can see the debris tumbling along behind, one of the larger pieces coming to rest not far behind the aircraft as it comes to a stop. Since the gear's door remained attached to the strut and there was no other damage to the aircraft, it led me to the conclusion that the wheel had failed.

Wayne Little · Oct 13, 2015

Glad damage was limited....

FLYBOYJ · Oct 14, 2015

Park said:
Should have cut the fuel before landing? Looks like a prop strike?

The only time you cut fuel is in the event of a fire or if you're wheels up and/ or dead stick

Park · Oct 14, 2015

OK, most prop planes I've flown recommended shutting down the engine on the effected side or in this case the only engine before landing to minimize damage in the event of a gear up or partial gear up landing.

gumbyk · Oct 14, 2015

Really? What have you flown? I've never seen that in any flight manual I've ever read.

Any idea what the shut-down procedure is for a Hurricane? Does it have an idle cut-off in the mixture, or do you have to shut it down on the magnetos?

FLYBOYJ · Oct 14, 2015

Park said:
OK, most prop planes I've flown recommended shutting down the engine on the effected side or in this case the only engine before landing to minimize damage in the event of a gear up or partial gear up landing.

Prop planes? Reciprocating engines have props as do turbo props - so let's be specific and do tell what you have flown!!!

Park · Oct 14, 2015

87 different makes/models and variants of GA aircraft. I can think of a few low wing multi engine t-prop's that you wouldn't want prop parts coming through the aircraft.

gumbyk · Oct 14, 2015

Park said:
87 different makes/models and variants of GA aircraft. I can think of a few low wing multi engine t-prop's that you wouldn't want prop parts coming through the aircraft.

Were these written procedures or 'hangar talk'? I've seen and heard of it done, but it was shutting the engine down in the flare (basically pulling the mixture instead of the power levers).

Personally, I wouldn't be wanting to mess around trying to shut an engine down while trying to land a tail-wheel aircraft with a known problem. And shutting it down any time before the flare just removes your option of a go-around.

Has there ever been a reported incident of prop parts entering the cabin under these circumstances?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZZvNmt57rE

There was no significant damage to the fuselage in this incident.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 14, 2015

Park said:
87 different makes/models and variants of GA aircraft. I can think of a few low wing multi engine t-prop's that you wouldn't want prop parts coming through the aircraft.

Your initial comment was about shutting fuel off to a single engine aircraft while the engine is still functioning, in the case of this thread during a potential landing gear failure. By doing that you're trying to deal with one emergency by creating another!!! There is NO gear up emergency landing procedures on retract single Cessna, Piper and Mooney products and definitely nothing about shutting fuel off EXCEPT when dealing with a fire or total engine failure and in the case of warbirds, I looked at the pilots notes for the Hurricane, Spitfire and RAF Mustang and nothing is remotely mentioned. If the landing gear is not coming down and you're forced to make a gear up landing, prop strikes at idle will not make a difference (even on a twin, I've put a few back together) but even before the first sparks fly off the aircraft, the insurance company bought the aircraft anyway so why even try to do something that will add another huge link in the accident safety chain?!?!?

Park · Oct 14, 2015

You finally answered my question. I have never flown a war bird (all ways wanted too) and in my OP was wondering why not secure the engine to help prevent more damage. I see your reasoning so OK.

There are so many aircraft types and procedures are different.

Also I would like to add that I don't like to "arm chair quarterback" about incidents or accidents because I was not there.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 14, 2015

Park said:
You finally answered my question. I have never flown a war bird (all ways wanted too) and in my OP was wondering why not secure the engine to help prevent more damage. I see your reasoning so OK.

There are so many aircraft types and procedures are different.

Agree, but I'd bet dollars to donuts you're not going to find any procedure anywhere that will have you shut down or cut off fuel to a good running engine unless there's a fire.

Park said:
Also I would like to add that I don't like to "arm chair quarterback" about incidents or accidents because I was not there.

You and I both...

Park · Oct 14, 2015

gumbyk said:
Were these written procedures or 'hangar talk'? I've seen and heard of it done, but it was shutting the engine down in the flare (basically pulling the mixture instead of the power levers).

Personally, I wouldn't be wanting to mess around trying to shut an engine down while trying to land a tail-wheel aircraft with a known problem. And shutting it down any time before the flare just removes your option of a go-around.

Has there ever been a reported incident of prop parts entering the cabin under these circumstances?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZZvNmt57rE

There was no significant damage to the fuselage in this incident.

I'm sure there has. I know of an accident in Hawthorne, CA with a Metroliner that ran off the side of the runway and the prop strike that severely injured a pax when prop parts entered the cabin.

This is the procedure for the Metroliner;

gumbyk · Oct 14, 2015

Interesting... That's the first time I've seen that, thanks for sharing.

Although, the forces transmitted from a feathered propeller blade to the gearbox would be greater than a power-off, or prop in beta. And the Metro has 4-bladed props, so you're going to bend at least one of them.

Park · Oct 14, 2015

FLYBOY; maybe you and I can have a donut and a cup of coffee someday.

gumbyk · Oct 14, 2015

I haven't been able to find anything about this incident on the FAA database. I was hoping there would be some definite information there. Anyone know what the rules are regarding reporting accidents/incidents over there? This would definitely be legally reportable here in NZ.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 14, 2015

Park said:
FLYBOY; maybe you and I can have a donut and a cup of coffee someday.

Hurricane has an accident

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