I am sad today.

[Sisu]

I'm an American. I love the America that was. With all its warts this country nurtured and protected me when I was small. My country educated me -- allowed a poor miner's kid from backwoods Michigan to become a prosperous retiree, having had a great life. I served my country, giving three years of my life to military service. For many reasons I moved to another country 30 years ago, but my family and friends and beloved places are still in America.

Now it has become a different place, and I'm having to face the fact that I will probably never see my native land again. The hostility to friends we see from America -- the anger and paranoia and striking out at allies and coddling enemies of humanity is agonizing when seen from the outside. There have been two cases in the last couple of weeks of people inside my circle of friends of people -- regular white middle class middle aged people -- being asked about things at the border, and being banned from entering the US because border assholes asked them leading questions (So "what do you think of tariffs" in one case and "What do you think about President Trump" in the other) and the American border asshole did not like the answer. One traveller was banned from entry for a year and the other for five years. There is no appealing this bullshit -- the ban is just there...

I really cannot see myself going back to a place like that anytime soon if ever.

I am very sad about all this.

 

[Sabrejet]

I have many friends in the USA. Sometime ago we agreed that we would not discuss this whole mess because it just drags you down after many times when we thought it would get better tomorrow but only got worse.

It's hard to believe what has happened but good will eventually prevail. But those who are left need to be firm in punishing those who allowed it to happen. Anything less will send out the wrong message to those who think that it will be allowed to happen again.

 

[Crimea_River]

Sad to say but the various visits I was hoping to make to the US ain't gonna happen until things change. And that won't be soon.

I suspect this thread will be locked down but I sympathize with the poster and all like him.

 

[GrauGeist]

I place the blame squarely on both sides of the aisle - they (asshole politicians) have turned my state (California) and nation into land that I do not recognize.

If I had the money, I'd move to Bulgaria in a heartbeat. It is a land that reminds me of the California that I grew up in - the people, the weather and the laid-back lifestyle.

 

[MiTasol]

That is why I am staying in Australia.

 

[SaparotRob]

Sawas-dii, Kingdom of Thailand.

 

[MiTasol]

I place the blame squarely on both sides of the aisle - they (asshole politicians) have turned my state (California) and nation into land that I do not recognize.

If I had the money, I'd move to Bulgaria in a heartbeat. It is a land that reminds me of the California that I grew up in - the people, the weather and the laid-back lifestyle.

Three of my offspring, plus one spouse, all US citizens, moved to Ireland today leaving just one offspring in the US. All four truly love Seattle and their community but recent happenings to neighbours and their desire to travel to other countries every vacation made the US untenable to them as both adults have dual passports. It comes with a massive pay cut but they still consider it a win. The one who remains is a fellow republican and said that they would never get the Australian passport they are entitled to through me because I am a neutralised Aussie. They have now received that and used it on their most recent vacation. Only one sibling left.

 

[SaparotRob]

Three of my offspring, plus one spouse, all US citizens, moved to Ireland today leaving just one offspring in the US. All four truly love Seattle and their community but recent happenings to neighbours and their desire to travel to other countries every vacation made the US untenable to them as both adults have dual passports. It comes with a massive pay cut but they still consider it a win. The one who remains is a fellow republican and said that they would never get the Australian passport they are entitled to through me because I am a neutralised Aussie. They have now received that and used it on their most recent vacation. Only one sibling left.

I think spellcheck struck again.

 

[MiTasol]

No - I always call myself neutralised instead of naturalised.

 

[SaparotRob]

So they haven't gotten you yet.

 

[rwhiting]

I'm an American. I love the America that was. With all its warts this country nurtured and protected me when I was small. My country educated me -- allowed a poor miner's kid from backwoods Michigan to become a prosperous retiree, having had a great life. I served my country, giving three years of my life to military service. For many reasons I moved to another country 30 years ago, but my family and friends and beloved places are still in America.

Now it has become a different place, and I'm having to face the fact that I will probably never see my native land again. The hostility to friends we see from America -- the anger and paranoia and striking out at allies and coddling enemies of humanity is agonizing when seen from the outside. There have been two cases in the last couple of weeks of people inside my circle of friends of people -- regular white middle class middle aged people -- being asked about things at the border, and being banned from entering the US because border assholes asked them leading questions (So "what do you think of tariffs" in one case and "What do you think about President Trump" in the other) and the American border asshole did not like the answer. One traveller was banned from entry for a year and the other for five years. There is no appealing this bullshit -- the ban is just there...

I really cannot see myself going back to a place like that anytime soon if ever.

I am very sad about all this.

Hi. I do a lot of reading on Vietnam and the Vietnam war. One of the things that became clear to me was that while there were those who fought a battle for the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people, the Vietnamese communists were fighting a battle form the hearts and minds of Americans. There major focus was the youth of America. I'm not here to argue that point but I writing to encourage you to hold fast the values that most Americans once held dear. Don't let what you see going on around you discourage you. What's going on today is very similar to what what was happening in the 60s and 70s. I don't want to get into the immigration issue, but there are many living among us who hold no affection for America or even the American way of life. I'm not saying it's perfect here, but if it wasn't better than other countries, why do so many want to come here?

Your comment dealt with those of other countries that face hostility. Why is this happening? There some elements in our government that feel like we have to have an enemy, someone to fight. The problem is that not everyone from foreign nations is our enemy. Yes there is an anti-American worldwide element, but that doesn't mean that everyone from other countries is our enemy. My mother was from Panama. My Dad met her there during a tour in the Air Force. She came here because she wanted to. and she worked towards becoming naturalized. She worked toward that goal for years and eventually obtained it. In regards to your friends having to answer questions that have nothing to do with visiting the U.S., sometimes no answer is better than an answer that can be used against you. Hope that helps.

 

[MiTasol]

Your comment dealt with those of other countries that face hostility. Why is this happening? There some elements in our government that feel like we have to have an enemy, someone to fight. The problem is that not everyone from foreign nations is our enemy. Yes there is an anti-American worldwide element, but that doesn't mean that everyone from other countries is our enemy.

Mods please edit if required.

I agree with much of what you write but you seem to misunderstand some of the current problems for Americans outside of the US because you are looking at it from a purely American living inside the US perspective.

First your comment There some elements in our government that feel like we have to have an enemy, someone to fight. This is a massive understatement and should say There some elements in our government that feel like almost every other nation, and especially our allies, is an enemy and someone to damage/destroy and financially gouge. Only Russia, North Korea and Israel are friends who shall be actively or tacitly supported.

I have been living in Australia since the late 70's and Australians had always considered America the leader of the free world. It was always one of, if not the, prime tourist destinations. Those no longer apply. My son (US citizen) and his wife (not a US citizen) planned on going to the US for a vacation and to be there for his offsprings graduation. She was refused entry for some unknown reason.

Australians have always been laid back and it takes a lot to get them upset. They also fiercely support "a fair go" and have many sayings like "a fair suck of the bottle" that cover that attitude. Americas abandonment of Ukraine and tacit support of Russia has lost the US a LOT of support. Even more so, Australians have always been massively supportive of Israel and despised Hamas and Hezbollah and all similar groups. Israel's multiple war crimes - for example last week "tapping" a group of journalists and following it up soon after with three more "taps" for the purpose of killing all the first responder civilians who rushed to the scene is seen by the majority of Australians as one of many steps too far. Six months ago if the Australian government had proposed officially recognising Palestine the outcry would have been massive. When announced last month it was supported by the majority of Australians. The American governments unlimited support of Israel on this and, worse still, the US plan to evict all the residents, without compensation, and turn Gaza into another Atlantic City is considered disgusting at best and genocide at worst.

It is not common, but almost certainly will become common, for previously strongly pro-US Australians to now call the US the Urinated States because of what is seen as the petty barstardry of the current US administration in almost every field. It is also becoming evident that, hypocritically, Australians (+Canadians and many other nationalities) are finding it difficult to separate American citizens from American policy which makes ALL American citizens unwelcome here to a growing number of Australians. This also is likely to grow.

Unfortunately I cannot see America's world standing improving in the foreseeable future but I can see a time when a large number of free world nations will coalesce around a new leader of the free world and wreck the same havoc on the US as the US has on its allies since January this year..

 

[Sabrejet]

I'm glad this thread has stood, because its subject matter goes way beyond politics. I just hope that when the time comes, we can make a return to normality and a time when it was possible to have a different opinion and not hate someone for it; a time where civilized discourse was the norm, not something to be discouraged.

I don't live in the USA and I'm not a US citizen, but I have many friends and colleagues who live there. They are lovely people; it was a wonderful place to visit. I hope it can be again.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Mods please edit if required.

I agree with much of what you write but you seem to misunderstand some of the current problems for Americans outside of the US because you are looking at it from a purely American living inside the US perspective.

First your comment There some elements in our government that feel like we have to have an enemy, someone to fight. This is a massive understatement and should say There some elements in our government that feel like almost every other nation, and especially our allies, is an enemy and someone to damage/destroy and financially gouge. Only Russia, North Korea and Israel are friends who shall be actively or tacitly supported.

I have been living in Australia since the late 70's and Australians had always considered America the leader of the free world. It was always one of, if not the, prime tourist destinations. Those no longer apply. My son (US citizen) and his wife (not a US citizen) planned on going to the US for a vacation and to be there for his offsprings graduation. She was refused entry for some unknown reason.

Australians have always been laid back and it takes a lot to get them upset. They also fiercely support "a fair go" and have many sayings like "a fair suck of the bottle" that cover that attitude. Americas abandonment of Ukraine and tacit support of Russia has lost the US a LOT of support. Even more so, Australians have always been massively supportive of Israel and despised Hamas and Hezbollah and all similar groups. Israel's multiple war crimes - for example last week "tapping" a group of journalists and following it up soon after with three more "taps" for the purpose of killing all the first responder civilians who rushed to the scene is seen by the majority of Australians as one of many steps too far. Six months ago if the Australian government had proposed officially recognising Palestine the outcry would have been massive. When announced last month it was supported by the majority of Australians. The American governments unlimited support of Israel on this and, worse still, the US plan to evict all the residents, without compensation, and turn Gaza into another Atlantic City is considered disgusting at best and genocide at worst.

It is not common, but almost certainly will become common, for previously strongly pro-US Australians to now call the US the Urinated States because of what is seen as the petty barstardry of the current US administration in almost every field. It is also becoming evident that, hypocritically, Australians (+Canadians and many other nationalities) are finding it difficult to separate American citizens from American policy which makes ALL American citizens unwelcome here to a growing number of Australians. This also is likely to grow.

Unfortunately I cannot see America's world standing improving in the foreseeable future but I can see a time when a large number of free world nations will coalesce around a new leader of the free world and wreck the same havoc on the US as the US has on its allies since January this year..

As an American, I have always regarded Aussies as our most natural allies. That even they scorn our current administration just burns my heart. Please remember that our government is not us.

 

[buffnut453]

There are similar rumblings in the UK where many people are simply baffled at how America's closest, most reliable, and (arguably) most militarily capable ally is being treated.

The law of unintended consequences will hopefully apply some course-correction but it will take time. For example, demands to increase NATO spending are being met...but the expectation that those Pounds Sterling and Euros would be spent on US military equipment seems naiive in the extreme. Yes, NATO members are increasing spending but they're investing in European industries. The recently-announced purchase by Norway of five Type 26 frigates from the UK is but one example. It will be REALLY interesting to see whether European Allies buy American for the F-35 replacement, or if they go with one of at least 2 current European programmes for next-gen combat aircraft.

Like many others, I've long viewed America as a bastion of democratic freedoms. It's always had a pretty well-entrenched xenophobic streak but, by and large, it's been a massively positive influence in the world. I fear that streak is now trending much more towards isolationism and, essentially, cutting the US off from the rest of the world (because, at some level, it can afford to). Unfortunately, such approaches will also alter the US's influence in the world. The more DC tries to dictate to the free world, the more likely it is that those democratic nations will forge alternative alliances and agreements. It will also make the US a less attractive place for education and work...and that HAS to impact America's economy, its rate of technological development, and its influence.

Politics seems to attract people with big egos. Sadly, it's a trait of such people that they start to believe their own soundbites and don't consider second- and third-order effects. Any large organization that fails to self-evaluate and keep tabs on changes in their world is destined to fail. A favourite mentor of mine would often say "We could be the best buggy-whip maker but that's not a recipe for growth."

I lived in the US for 16 years but decided to move back to the UK in 2024. Since then, we've been back to the States 3 times...but I haven't regretted our decision to move for a second.

 

[Sabrejet]

...and if you call yourself an "American", know that the rest of the world is thinking anywhere from Argentina to Canada. It's a big continent and the USA is only a small part of it. But it does grate a bit that some US citizens consider themselves "American" and don't think the other parts deserve the term somehow.

 

[Marcel]

Although the mood in the thread seems to be friendly enough, we still have the no-politics rule in place, so I'm afraid I'll have to close this one.