If the USAF would not have chosen a version of the Navy's F4 Phantom as its primary fighter through 1960s to mid-1970s, what would it have chosen? (1 Viewer)

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Conslaw

Senior Airman
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Jan 22, 2009
Indianapolis, Indiana USA
I think the Phantom is an excellent aircraft, but I was wondering what the United States Air Force would have done if had chosen not to adopt the F4. Your thoughts?
 
I think they would have relied upon the Century-series until the lessons of Vietnam propelled the -15 and -16 production anyway.

Defense budgets in the 60s had a large chunk taken up by the operational expenses in Vietnam, and McNamara was all about efficiencies, so I'm not sure he'd okay yet another program, especially once the F-111 grew to be a money-hog. I doubt the Air Force could afford the -111, a hypothetical F-14 to replace the aging fighters, on top of developing the -15 and -16.

The F-4 was too useful and could hold the tide while the 4G fighters were being developed. Why insert another piece into the puzzle, is my opinion -- and that's all it is.
 
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The USAF had been planning to buy more F-106As to equip some of TAC's fighter squadrons that were assigned air-combat duties (as opposed to the F-100 & F-105 units that were primarily ground-attack squadrons).

There was even discussion of an improved fighter-killer version of the F-106 bomber-interceptor, but the selection of the F-110 Spectre (initial USAF designation of their version of the F4H-1 Phantom [USN pre-1962 designation for what became the F-4B in October 1962]) ended all talk of new orders of any variant of the F-106.
 
I think they would have relied upon the Century-series until the lessons of Vietnam propelled the -15 and -16 production anyway.

Defense budgets in the 60s had a large chunk taken up by the operational expenses in Vietnam, and McNamara was all about efficiencies, so I'm not sure he'd okay yet another program, especially once the F-111 grew to be a money-hog. I doubt the Air Force could afford the -111, a hypothetical F-14 to replace the aging fighters, on top of developing the -15 and -16.

The F-4 was too useful and could hold the tide while the 4G fighters were being developed. Why insert another piece into the puzzle, is my opinion -- and that's all it is.

Do you have a thought on which Century Series fighters the USAF would have relied on? The F-101 was really only successful in photo-recon. The F-102 was supplanted by the F-106, which was strictly air-to-air. The AF really never liked the F-104 much. It couldn't carry much ordinance, had no range, and apparently it was inferior as an interceptor to the F-106. The F-105 was very successful in the bomber role, and the AF likely would have the production line extended, but it was not great in air-to-air. The F-106 was never really explored to its limits. The F-107, all-weather Mach 2 sequel to the F-100 is interesting, and likely more versatile than the other Centuries, but it still sees to me to be inferior generally to the F4 Phantom. But for the Phantom, I think the F-107 would have gone into production, but I don't think it was the ultimate answer. The F-108 was never completed. It was too expensive, and had questionable utility. the XF-109 was a VTOL concept that wasn't going to be practical. The F-4 was the F-110. The F-111 was too expensive to be the AIr Force's general fighter, and wasn't well-tailored to air-to-air combat. The up-engined F-8 Crusader looked like it could take on all comers in the air-to-air department, but was not even in the same league as the F-4 as a bomb truck.
 
The USAF had been planning to buy more F-106As to equip some of TAC's fighter squadrons that were assigned air-combat duties (as opposed to the F-100 & F-105 units that were primarily ground-attack squadrons).
Yeah, I figure that would have been the most likely scenario: More F-106's and F-105's would have been procured
There was even discussion of an improved fighter-killer version of the F-106
Prior to the F-4? I do remember in Vietnam there was some looking into the idea of fitting a gunpack to the F-106 (which was ultimately done, IIRC, in the 1970's)
 
What about the F-101? It became Canada's primary fighter until the Hornet.

If there's no USAF Phantom II, it begs the question what does the Luftwaffe, Japan, Greece, etc. use?
 
I suspect that North American's F-108 proposal may have had a chance, if the AF did not purchase the F-110 (F-4).
Isn't the F-108 chasing the same long-range, high-speed interceptor dead end as the CF-105. The USAF needs a multirole fighter, something like the role the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was undertaking at the time, but with twin engines, two-seats and excellent radar-guided missile capability.
 
The USAF needs a multirole fighter, something like the role the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was undertaking at the time, but with twin engines, two-seats and excellent radar-guided missile capability.
"Needed" but didn't fully understand what it was going to take and the F-Wonderlemon (111) at the time wasn't going to cut it. The F-108 would have gone through hefty re-design.
 
I would expect that if the F-110/F-4 hadn't been adopted, then we'd have built more F-105's for bombing and F-106's as fighters. Perhaps we might have taken some of the lessons of the Dassault Mirage series, especially from the later IAI variants, the Nesher and Kfir?

I would imagine that the F-102 would stick around longer too in the training role and perhaps as an F-5 equivalent role?
 
You possibly could to a later version. Short term, they already have the Thud and, IIUC, the 106 wasn't originally designed to hang ordinance from.

This is another place where learning from Dassault & IAI would be good.
 

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