Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Guns and ballistics aren't my "bag" but as I understand it for the British in 1940/41 switching to 0.5" mgs would hardly have been an improvement. Its reliability, rate of fire and I think muzzle velocity were transformed between 1940 and 43. The RAF did eventually put them on Spitfires because the ballistics were closer to the 20mm cannon. Its a bit like comparing a Merlin in 1940 to one in 1943, the name is the same, almost everything had changed.I always thought the US .50 cal was a good gun, from essentially the start.
Back to cannons, how we're the Japanese 20 mm cannons for reliability?
I always thought the US .50 cal was a good gun, from essentially the start.
Back to cannons, how we're the Japanese 20 mm cannons for reliability?
It should be remembered that the 109E only had 60 rpg so the problem wasn't limited to the RAF early 20mmThat's the trouble with the Whirlwind and its four cannons. With only 60 rounds per gun, for a total of 240 rounds, each gun firing 600–700 rpm, you'd need burst control to avoid needlessly avoid depleting all your shells into that first bomber. We need earlier belt feed systems for the Hispano-Suiza.
It's amazing how those two services couldn't get along or share tech and kit. I wonder if the IJN and IJAF pilots had separate barracks when they had to share bases, like at Rabaul. The British FAA and RAF weren't on best terms, but they shared the same aircraft guns, ammunition, engines, etc. and many of the same aircraft types. IIRC, the only purely naval fighters of British origin, with no RAF equal from the beginning of British naval aviation until the jet age were the Flycatcher, Fulmar and Firefly. The Japanese founded their carrier force on the British model, but thought that a small island nation with limited resources should instead run a completely separate air arm for its navy, with separate guns, aircraft, etc. Imagine the logistics, how often did a crate of 20 mm cannon ammunition arrive at a base only to be non-compatible?The Japanese Navy type 99-1?
The Japanese Navy type 99-2 (used different ammo, 29mm longer cartridge case)?
The Japanese Army Ho-1/3? used it's own ammo
The Japanese Army Ho-5? another type of ammo.
My thinking in the opening post was an earlier introduction of what we saw. So, Spitfire Mark V's 4 x .303 mg and 2 x 20 mm cannon, and the Hurricane's 4 x 20 mm cannon. It would however be interesting to see how Hawker could accommodate the same armament as the Spitfire Mk. V.If the RAF used a 20mm cannon then I would ask how many in each fighter?
The Russians modified the Hurricane II to carry 2 x 20 mm cannon and 2 x fifties.My thinking in the opening post was an earlier introduction of what we saw. So, Spitfire Mark V's 4 x .303 mg and 2 x 20 mm cannon, and the Hurricane's 4 x 20 mm cannon. It would however be interesting to see how Hawker could accommodate the same armament as the Spitfire Mk. V.
I like this idea of 4x20mm cannon armed Hurricane with the Douglas Boston spotlight.Some Spitfires also carried two 20 mm Hispanos and two 0.5 in MG. I believe the preference was for four 20 mm, but the design of the Spitfire's wing (at least in some variants) made it difficult to adequately heat the weapons bays for four 20 mm.
Check out this Spitfire with six cannons! If only a dummy installation as a weight/aerodynamics trial.Some Spitfires also carried two 20 mm Hispanos and two 0.5 in MG. I believe the preference was for four 20 mm, but the design of the Spitfire's wing (at least in some variants) made it difficult to adequately heat the weapons bays for four 20 mm.
The story one of my teachers at school told us all was that a Spitfire with 4 x 20 mm cannon and 4 lmg was tested over the the river Thames. I grew up, went to school in Westcliff on Sea, on the Thames Estuary. That the wings broke off, and it lies under the water out there.Check out this Spitfire with six cannons! If only a dummy installation as a weight/aerodynamics trial.
Guns & Cannon: Rules of Thumb
The story one of my teachers at school told us all was that a Spitfire with 4 x 20 mm cannon and 4 lmg was tested over the the river Thames. I grew up, went to school in Westcliff on Sea, on the Thames Estuary. That the wings broke off, and it lies under the water out there.
Quite possibly, but 4 cannons only became standard with the Mk 21 onwards, before that it was 2 cannon plus either no mg, 4 lmg or 2 HMG. 4 cannon + 4 lmg is a lot of recoil for such a slender wing.Sounds like an urban myth. If the wing was passed to carry 4 x 20mm Hispano (Spits with the C or E wing could carry 4 x Hispano) the extra recoil of 4 x Browning .303s would be barely noticeable.
Guide to Spitfire wing types
Hawker Hurricane IIB and its 12 x .303s wants a word.Get annoyed when people say the 8 303s is weak sauce.
No it ain't. Plenty good enough.
It's interesting how the Japanese thought a pair of .303s was sufficient in the early Ki-43
Goodness. And all this with a .303 type gun that's been flying in pairs since 1915.In part due to problems with the Ho-103 machine gun which included.
1, not enough of them
2, not enough ammo
3, a rather low rate of fire when synchronized.
4, ammo that tended explode in the gun barrel or upon leaving the gun barrel leading to armor troughs (or at least heavy steel) being fitted from the gun muzzle/s forward over the engine.