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Yeah, I kind of remember seeing numbers in the 4000 fpm range on the World War II Aircraft Performance site.I would note that a P-38J running on 44-1 fuel was allowed to run at 70in of MAP and could climb at over 4,000fpm just above sea level.
While I remember hearing the intercooler produced more drag than before, I'm not sure exactly how much. I'd almost swear the 420 mph figure was based on an MP setting that wasn't the maximum and they could hit as much as 440 at higher settings, but there happened to be a degree of conservatism because the plane was flying very close to the point where it would start to run into significant compressibility effects if they nosed over.Plane was bit of brick and maxed out at 419mph at 19,800ft.
I never knew that...Plane had the 20mm replaced by 5th .50 cal MG.
I forgot about the duct-work matter, and the bulk that came with it (interestingly, I'm not sure how much of a weight difference there is between a turbocharger and a twin-stage supercharger), I just figured: "Two stages of supercharging usually requires an intercooler anyway" (the P-63 didn't have one, but that was because Allison couldn't seem to figure out a liquid-to-air intercooler arrangement, and they ended up using ADI instead). That said, I thought the P-38 had a single intercooler stage and the Rolls-Royce Merlin had (effectively) 1-1/2 stages of cooling (the casing and air passageways between the first and second stage had cooling, and the aftercooler).Note: supercharger, not turbocharger. No high temp ducting back to an aft mounted turbo (a la P38 and P47), and not two stages of intercooling, just a single. All in all, a lighter weight boost system, and all concentrated forward of the firewall.
Yeah, with the question ultimately coming down to how much horsepower you loose from the supercharger versus the amount of horsepower you gain in the form of thrust (and this varies with speed). If you're speed's above 375 mph and critical altitude is high you can potentially break even....and with exhaust thrust available from the stacks.
The figures are from a test and the test plane had the five .50s. Not that the rest of the planes did.. I'd almost swear the 420 mph figure was based on an MP setting that wasn't the maximum and they could hit as much as 440 at higher settings, but there happened to be a degree of conservatism because the plane was flying very close to the point where it would start to run into significant compressibility effects if they nosed over.
The numerous air inlets as well as the turbo recess on each boom fuselage contributed to drag, too.While any aircraft benefits from more HP, P-38 really needed a much improved streamlining. A lot had to do with the wing section between the pod and booms, windscreen angle, and the shape of the aft section of the pod.
The numerous air inlets as well as the turbo recess on each boom fuselage contributed to drag, too.
The P-51H was designed to Spitfire design load limits, namely 7.5 and 11G for Design/Ultimate AoA laods, and 4G (vs 7) for landing geat - but retained 1G lateral,One suggestion I'd make for the main production P-51 Mustangs was adopt a cowling similar to the XP-51F/G/J and the P-51H. It'd have fewer panels and no "cage" to attach them to. It'd make engine access easier and shed a bit of weight (even if that loss is negligible).
Not to mention that I'd have designed some of the LW's and H's lightweight design features from the start (though not the landing gear--it's obviously strong enough but IMO looks pretty spindly).
I mentioned the lighter design landing gear allowables above. The XP-51F was considered (as combo interceptor/LR escort) but when it first flew, it was clear that AAF was priortizing range, and thus XP-51F/G were abandoned in favor of P-51H. It was impossible to fit either 50gal or 85 gal fuse tank and keep design allowables for stress. That said,the XP-51F/G had 20gal more than all previous Mustangs until intro of 85gal fuse tank. The increased weight of the H was due to maintenance of full AoA stress allowables with extra 2 guns and ammo and increase of 50 gal fuselage fuel.Landing gear is one area (citing your post) is the one area where I'd argue that the P-51H was "weaker" than the earlier models. Obviously, it got the job done, but seeing a P-51H parked it looks spindly compared to how "beefy" the rest of the plane is. Same thing with the lightweights that spawned the H. It always looked weird to me, though I like the H as a flyer because of its performance--basically it was if Ed Schmued could do it over again (WWSD), and many of those design ideas ended up also in the F-82.
Granted, IMO, the P-51H was a "porker" compared to the XP-51F/G, though to be fair, those were proof of concept planes that I don't think were seriously looked at for production. Still, lighter weight, more power for the H made it the premier Mustang. I'd bet that the Germans and Japanese were glad it got ordered and put into production too late to see much use (no combat use as far as is known, only a few issued to squadrons).
That, and the H did deal with the annoying CG/directional stability issues that the rear fuselage tank caused (taller tail--though not on the very first planes--, longer fuselage, smaller tank), though I did see a reference on here that it could've carried a ton more fuel there than the B/D without hurting handling too much.
Yes, true. But there aren't any production piston inline airplanes of the time that don't have intakes for the same functions. Sometimers they split the air from one scoop to allocate it to various functions. So, the issue is how much drag they could eliminate with a general "clean up," not really to get rid of the air intakes ... which I'm positive you weren't implying to start with.Plus the several intakes at the front of the cowling, including the small magneto cooling intakes, larger air intakes as well as the radiator/intercooler intakes beneath the prop.
Could another reason for weight increase be stressing for underwing stores? I know that there's photos of the British XP-51F carrying drop tanks, but I don't believe it was ever really cleared for other underwing stores (if it made it to production it would've been, but I've never found anything reliable on that front). The H, meanwhile, could carry the same drop tanks, bomb/rocket load at the D.I mentioned the lighter design landing gear allowables above. The XP-51F was considered (as combo interceptor/LR escort) but when it first flew, it was clear that AAF was priortizing range, and thus XP-51F/G were abandoned in favor of P-51H. It was impossible to fit either 50gal or 85 gal fuse tank and keep design allowables for stress. That said,the XP-51F/G had 20gal more than all previous Mustangs until intro of 85gal fuse tank. The increased weight of the H was due to maintenance of full AoA stress allowables with extra 2 guns and ammo and increase of 50 gal fuselage fuel.
All of the XP-51F/G/J were cleared for 1000# per rack. To my knowledge no rocket stubs, or earlier MX -241 mounts, were installed on any of the four tCould another reason for weight increase be stressing for underwing stores? I know that there's photos of the British XP-51F carrying drop tanks, but I don't believe it was ever really cleared for other underwing stores (if it made it to production it would've been, but I've never found anything reliable on that front). The H, meanwhile, could carry the same drop tanks, bomb/rocket load at the D.
All NA-105 (XP-51F/G/J) were scratch sheet of paper designs,because of the intense scrutiny regarding weight. Offhand I need to get a few more documents but very few P-51H parts moved from NA-105 project. The H was not only dimensionally different (bigger) but the Master Lines were different everywhere also. Additionally the H 'grew' structurally to take the extra 1500-2000 pounds gross weight. I wouldn't be surprised if cockpit and control linkages remained same - but I don't know.Thanks. I've been looking for that info for a while. Other than what you've mentioned and externally visible differences (different canopy, longer and taller tail, raised cockpit), how else did the H differ from the F/G (I ought to buy a book I got wind of rather than asking here LOL)?
Yes, true. But there aren't any production piston inline airplanes of the time that don't have intakes for the same functions. Sometimers they split the air from one scoop to allocate it to various functions. So, the issue is how much drag they could eliminate with a general "clean up," not really to get rid of the air intakes ... which I'm positive you weren't implying to start with.
The P-47 concealed the turbocharger within a shroud. There are no extraneous intakes. All the air for the induction system including the intercooler comes from the chin intake which also serves the oil coolers. A very slick arrangement.Replacing a lot of those small intakes with NACA intakes would have dropped drag but probably increased weight and definitely made maintenance more complex by having to disconnect the various hoses