INTERWAR BRITISH BATTLESHIP DESIGN

[vinnye]

The Lion's would have been a useful addition to the RN, but what would have been lost by building them?
If it would have been at the expense of a carrier - maybe not. Other options may have been to lose convoy escorts - not a good idea.

 

[delcyros]

I remain not convinced. I have diffiuclties to see the LION´s beeing a worthy addition to the RN. The KGV´s already were suited for the tasks entitled to them and similarely endagered by aerial threads (LION replacing PoW would still be sunk by japanese airforces, no change). But what is more important, the KGV´s were aviable in time. Priceless.
A LION would be capable to take on a BISMARCK on equal terms one on one, but only two such ships existed and LION would still be at severe disadvantage against the YAMATO´s as were other BB´s.

 

[vinnye]

I don't think any BB would do well against a Yamato one on one!
The best thing you could do if you saw one on the horizon - is run away as fast as you can and maybe try a sneak night attack with torpedos!

The Lion would have made a good addition to counter the threat of KM surface raiders - whatever class, and would have made a good addition to the Mediterranean fleet to catch the quick Italian BBs.

 

[RCAFson]

That´s the LION-class design of RN battleships. Basically the KGV-scheme with 3x3 16in MkII.
Roughly 43,300 to 43,700ts standart, 28.75kts max speed, armour and torpedo protection similar to the KGV (except for turret and barbettes which are slightly thicker).

Compared to the SOUTH DAKOTA´s, this design is slightly larger and faster, has comparable firepower and comparable or arguably better armour protection.

Lion would have had 130,000shp. Vanguard made 31.5 knots with 136,000shp, so I think you are underestimating Lion's speed.

 

[Juha]

I don't think any BB would do well against a Yamato one on one!
The best thing you could do if you saw one on the horizon - is run away as fast as you can and maybe try a sneak night attack with torpedos!...

Not sure on that, US 16"/50 was very powerful gun, in long range gunnery duels chance had its effec, one who got in the first telling hit had an advance. Allied had better radar fire control than IJN so if their main armament could penetrate Yamato's armour, as also US 16"/45 could, so if tactical situation demanded engagement, why not. Of course it would have been better to let a/c do the job.

Juha

 

[delcyros]

Lion would have had 130,000shp. Vanguard made 31.5 knots with 136,000shp, so I think you are underestimating Lion's speed.

28.75kts are her official design speed according to british sources, not mine. Actual speed may be higher or lower, depending on the conditions of trial, displacement and the amount of overload.

 

[Wavelength]

The Commander of the Achilles view was "My own feelings were that the enemy could do anything he wanted to. He showed no sign of being damaged; his main armament was firing accurately; the Exeter evidently was out of it, and so he had only two small cruisers to prevent him attacking the very valuable River Plate trade."

.

Hi Glider, can you provide the source for this quote. I'm not questioning it but I'd like to look into this further for my own research.

 

[Glider]

Bliomey that was some time ago. I will have a look but will not have time until the end of the week.

 

[vinnye]

What did Graf Spee have fixed when in port?
Maybe just some minor stuff?

 

[Wavelength]

Some critical systems could not be repaired in time. One of the damages was to a auxillary steam plant that powered the de-salination system and the diesel fuel-water seperator system. There was a firm capable of doing the work but they were pro Allied and refused to help. The damge done to the forward diesel fuel pumping station by flooding could be dealt with but long term operation with a provisional fuel-water filtration system was not really an option. The damge done to the foretop firecontrol system and the foretop optics could not be repaired. Associated with this defect was the loss of the radar apperatus. A 6-inch shell had bust in the foretop one level below the firecontrol station and gutted the power supply to systems like the radar. This reduced the ships fighting ability. It was right after this hit that Langsdorf disengaged.

 

[vinnye]

Thanks for the detailed reply Wavelength.
That does explain some of the apparent discrepancy between what little damage appeared to have been done from the RN observing Graf Spee from the wrong end of her guns and what had actually been damaged but not apparent from distance.