Iranian boats harass US warships

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The Iranian fast boats (they aren't gunboats) were faked and photoshopped. You really believe that? I suppose the British hostages were a figment of Downing Street? Trautloft, I can't figure out if you have an anti-west agenda or are just plain ignorant. If you were driving down a street in Vienna and some thugs approached your car telling you that your family was going to die, you are telling the forum you would ignore these goblins and not defend your family's lives? Well that pretty much sums up the difference between you and the US, doesn't it.

When the wolf is stalking, you can either choose to be a sheep or a sheep dog. The world is lucky that there are sheep dogs in this world, because your idea of using anonymity as a defense is self-fulfilling prey mentality.

On behalf of those who are currently serving overseas to protect you and me, I'm sure they would want me to tell you...

You're welcome.
 
i dont have an anti-west agenda,im just tired of a vision of western catholic world vs islam. one simple reason (lets forget the fact that we are here to exchange and respect our opinions and not calling each other ignorant?) is following: you won't be bombed and your family won't be bombed, in austria there are more fanatics as in the usa,and yes,you are right,the europian union isnt able to face such a threat. and yes,i am thankful for those who KEEP peace, what i tried to say is,that europe will be engulfed in flames first, you seem to forget it. the role of 'world's sheriff's' is not right. looking desperately for another war,which costs thousands of lives of your own soldiers,beside the innocent. do you really want it? are the iranians THAT dumb to attack the ships with suicide boats? they would desintegrate before they notice. Ahmadinejad is ignorant,but still he would never dare to treaten the Usa or Israel.
the tape might not be faked,but the overestimating of the situation definitely is.
If im not welcome here, just tell. until now i thought that everyone is correct here, but im tired of the role of a black sheep if i once dare to express a different opinion
 
Trautloft said:
i
If im not welcome here, just tell. until now i thought that everyone is correct here, but im tired of the role of a black sheep if i once dare to express a different opinion
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No Trautloft you are welcome here and you should not feel that way for expressing your opinion.

Everyone lets not let this get personal.
 
thanks. i am sorry if i sounded like im against the U.S., i know that its annoying if u only hear critics of all sides,and noone said 'hey,thanks,u saved our ass' . i pay my tribute to the soldiers. but not the politicians especially not bush. again,my opinion. just dont confuse war against terror with war against islam,that would be fatal
 
I apologize. My use of the term ignorant was not supposed to be equated to stupid. Rather, uneducated on the subject. And I stick by that comment. Wasn't calling you stupid, Traut, and you are not unwelcome here. But if you think you can post an opinion and not have to back it up or expect everyone to fawn over your post, then perhaps you are mistaken how forum work.

I have quite a hard time wrapping my head around the mentality that implies the US is war mongering and agitating a peaceful people. And do I think that the Iranians would attempt to blow up US warships? Where the eff have you been? Hiding in a cave? Iran is not a school bully whose only fault is a bad upbringing, Traut. This is real life, where people are willing to die to murder your kids... let alone attempt to sink a ship or cause an international incident. That latter more likely convince pacifists like yourself that the US is actually the bully and should return to its shores and ignore the cries for its destruction, the death of thousands of its citizens, and the destruction of its economy.

Is this about oil? You damn skippy its about oil. Oil is what runs our economy. We are willing to pay top dollar for oil. We do pay top dollar for oil. But when religious fundamentalists are beginning to take over the region, threatening free society with anihilation, and jeopardizing said oil flow... then yes. That is a national security threat. And the US is not going to sit on the sidelines and watch it happen.

And if you believe that political ethics should prevent a country/s support of any world leader that is not 100% in alignment with your ideals, then I can't begin to classify that as anything other than ignorant or naive on your part. The world is not black and white.

You may not like the Ahole who you buy your bread from, but he offers it as a good price. At some point in time you may find someone else who offers bread for less money. At that time, you can then gather friends together and attempt to run him out of your neighborhood for some perceived slight. It's called life. Except in a big boy's world the stakes are blood and pain.

I'm off my soapbox. Staged. That's insulting.
 
Please people, get with the facts. Photoshop is used to edit PHOTOGRAPHS, not video or movie clips. For someone to take an entire clip and edit every single frame, line it up properly and get it all synced back up would not only take the pateince of Job, but a he11 of a long time using Photoshop.

And WHO is it that is saying that this was a fake, or staged? Hmmmm? When it comes down to a journalist versus a US Navy commander on who I believe, well, I would say a US Navy commander has a lot more integrity.
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
No Trautloft you are welcome here and you should not feel that way for expressing your opinion.

Everyone lets not let this get personal.
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You are right adler. I just have a hard time letting the islams get away with 9/11. mind you not all islamic are bad. but why has this now become a war of beliefs, OH sorry thought this was the crusade era
 
wilbur1 said:
You are right adler. I just have a hard time letting the islams get away with 9/11. mind you not all islamic are bad. but why has this now become a war of beliefs, OH sorry thought this was the crusade era
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You are preaching to the choir my friend. I am an American as well. I served over there in the Middle East.
 
wilbur1 said:
mind you not all islamic are bad. but why has this now become a war of beliefs, OH sorry thought this was the crusade era
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yes,thats what im askin aswell.. maybe u ment the crusade thing jokingly..but some guys really think that its all about 'kickin some arab asses' and to annihilate Iran is the only way. ah and what the P-51 stand for in YOUR sig? i guess the same. To remember ww2.and to remember,that sometimes we fight for the wrong thing.

to Matt:
call me uneducated in this question, all i wanted is to warn you to think a bit further and dont rush with such sentences like 'lets nuke em' and ****. this won't be a walk like Desert Storm,this will be a dirty,long war where aren't winners.
u seem to misunderstand me, i explained three times more and more. i am well aware of the sense of a forum, no1 must be pleased about my opinion, but dont expect the same from me either.since most of u are from the u.s., and almost all of you seemed to be eager to attack whyever and whenever its possible ( i red the long topic about the british sailors carefully) and then even insulting uk members because of their sight of things- i still believe that the solution and answer must be well considered. It will be the same situation after crushing their army and building a new gouvernment, just multipled.This works,worked in Europe,Japan but never in the middle east. and far worse as u can immagine. Strict sanctions should work, look North Korea. in my opinion, they been a FAR bigger treat as Iraq ever been. Iraq was weakened twice, it was even weakened after Iraq-Iran war. Iraq had some Scuds,thats all. everything is destroyed now,and it is necessary. But NC really played with nuke. why didnt attack them? communist or fanatic islam. none is better, as long a dictator rules. Pakistan is the same, or Egypt. he might be a big buddy now, but if that changes, you will regret to sell them modern equipment, Abrams vs Abrams isnt Abrams vs T-55. you dont know me, im everything but liberal. i just fear a new era of warfare, which can't be won by bombing.
 
Traut you still miss the point and that is some of us have been there, fought these people have befriended them and they still comeback behind us to shoot us in the back. this is really no different the scenario played out in Vietnam which I remember too well.

Frankly your media hype that you have been believing that there were no WMD's or whatever you want to call them is plain rubbish we have found them we have the photo documentation but it will not be released for due reasons I shall not and will not give because it is not of anyones business besides the military at this moment in time. You have to understand again and this has been spoken by several of us serving time over there in different capacities that the mideast mind is not like the European/US mind, I really feel you do not have a grasp of this nor the common folk of the is world. Sadly for generations since times begun the Muslim mind is to transpose all of the world to their way of thinking even by the sword, wmd, knife, bomb you name it. whatever it is going to take for world domination. There whole history proves this and they have not deviated in it in the slightest, Arabs, Syrians, Iranians, Iraquis it does not matter, this is part of their own culture since it was first born and it shall die that way when this earth crumbles into oblivion. Talks with them at the peace table will not work, again past history has proven this......... and do you see why is some aspect some of us talk the way they do ? hope this is clear

E ~
 

should start a target shooting thread..

I used to shoot 600 yds with a Garand - (peep sights) and I own a .22 Anschutz. Now i mostly "dismantle" old hard drives with my Remington 270 ( pre-64)
 
Here, here. I'm not making personal attacks here Traut. And I don't advocate turning the middleast into glass. Certainly not in a serious manner.

But Erich is right. We are dealing with a medievil society whose values and ideals that are at such odds with the western world that you can call it a culture war, a religious war, or any other moniker you wish. Bottomline is we are at war. And running from the fight waiting for the war to knock on your doorstep is not what I would advocate. Certainly the US is not 100% fully aligned on this issue either. I am convinced that the west is so prosperous, that the average citizen cannot fathom the evil and oppression that these fanatics impose upon their own people and deal out to their enemies. It is easy for the average western citizen to leisurely get up in the morning, go to work, and retire in the evening without having to think about the horrors these animals inflict upon their region of the world. And I'm convinced that the root cause of this animosity towards life is firmly entrenched in their religion that worships the rewards of death more than the acheivements of living. This is a fundamental difference between Islam and the rest of the world's religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, etc).

Therefore, I tend to have a visceral reaction to folks whose only solution is isolationism or pacifism. The world is a rough place. Always has been. Always will be. Utopia is a LONG way away.
 
nicely said Matt,completely agreed. Utopia is simply not possible,because of the nature of mankind (sadly) . But because of the reasons and possible reactions, the best way , a quick,surgeon-like demonstration of power to show them their hopeless situation and cripple their military and nuke facilities, won't satisfy the goal,i think it would be the opposite. they would act as victims , raise anti-war voices in the homeland and make new allies with the rest of islamic countries. the elimination of Ahmedf*ggit would effect the same, they have surely some reserve clowns. to be honest,i really have no clue what would be best. there are pros but the contras are devastating to all options. tolerating their fooling around is certainly not wise, but if not a military first strike, what else? i thought of sanctions as i wrote above, but they take too long aswell and are easily tricked.
 
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