Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
So...we've taken 12 pages allegedly talking about whether democracy has a pulse when, in reality, we've mostly been talking about cars (again!). Does that mean democracy is dead?
(Did you see how I did that? Segued right back onto topic! Is there no end to my talents?...On second thoughts, don't answer that last question!!!)
I think we over sell democracy when we enter into arenas like Afghanistan or Iraq. The very most we can hope for when we 'insert ourselves' is that we refuse to knowingly participate in CORRUPTION. Corruption is the enemy of democratic process -- a far larger threat to democracy than communism ever was - INHO.
But .... in all honesty -- I'm disappointed with the response ... This thread was posed as a serious question - factoring in various ethnic, geographic and tribal "differences".
I think we over sell democracy when we enter into arenas like Afghanistan or Iraq. The very most we can hope for when we 'insert ourselves' is that we refuse to knowingly participate in CORRUPTION. Corruption is the enemy of democratic process -- a far larger threat to democracy than communism ever was - INHO.
Competent democracies are to be cherished.
I can think of two countries that had democracy ( of a sort ) thrust upon them by the west, and they still survive. Germany and Japan. But they had to be almost destroyed to do it.
I can think of two countries that had democracy ( of a sort ) thrust upon them by the west, and they still survive. Germany and Japan.
But they had to be almost destroyed to do it.
Can anyone think of a benevolent dictatorship ?
I can think of two countries that had democracy ( of a sort ) thrust upon them by the west, and they still survive. Germany and Japan. But they had to be almost destroyed to do it.
Good point tyrodtom, but not really the same. The Allies did not go to war with a specific mandate to impose democracy on either Japan or Germany. Also, neither Germany nor Japan had a choice. Between 1945 and 1989 Germany was simultaneously governed by a socialist dictatorship.
It would be fair to say that neither the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war were started with the goal of imposing democracy or freeing the people. If that was the stated aim of the wars it would create a difficult precedent - there other dictators around the world that could do with being removed.
It would be fair to say that neither the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war were started with the goal of imposing democracy or freeing the people. If that was the stated aim of the wars it would create a difficult precedent - there other dictators around the world that could do with being removed.
I would have to argue that point. The USA went to war in Iraq and Afganistan to find the fabled WMD and to rid these countries of Al Qaeda and Taleban influence, so we have been told, thus freeing the population from the tyranny that these organisations imposed. Obviously there was no link to Al Qaeda in Iraq, nor was there any WMD, therefore the (real) reason was to depose Saddam Hussain. Do you think that the USA intended on putting in another dictatorship in his regime's place, or a democratically elected government?
Yes, there most certainly are other dictators the US and its allies would like to take a pop at, but its not that simple; in Iraq and Afganistan there was a UN resolution that supported an invasion.
John, I cynically agree with you; Saddam was one of these dictators. Arguably his existence created an element of stability to the region and provided an antagonist to Iran, which gave the US something to smile about after the failure of Eagle Claw and the Iran Contra scandal.
The stated objectives of the invasion were; end the Hussein regime; eliminate whatever weapons of mass destruction could be found; eliminate whatever Islamist militants could be found; obtain intelligence on militant networks; distribute humanitarian aid; secure Iraq's petroleum infrastructure; and assist in creating a representative but compliant government as a model for other Middle East nations.