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Schöpfel said:Hello:
In my opinion the Spitfire was obviously the best British figher - up to 1944. First half of 1944 its either Spit XIV or Tempest V, the choice is a matter of taste. Beginning June 1944 I'd have to go with the Mustang III with +25 boost; it had the best all around performance. I can't think of another period of time where the RAF had an aircraft with such an enormous quality advantage over the Lufwaffe as the highly boosted Mustang IIIs had during the summer of 1944.
p.s. nice site RG_Lunatic
cheddar cheese said:The Spit could easily deal with the Fw-190 by about the Mk.VIII. It is also widely recognised that the Mk.XIV was the best dogfighter of the war...I havent heard of any combat reports with the 262's but if the P-47 could manage them im sure the Spitfire could. I would say it was easily Britains best fighter.
Maestro said:Dalton, you are wrong. Or, as we say in French : "You're out of the track".
In the same book than the Mustang VS Spitfire comparison, I got an other chapiter about the Spitfire Mk. IX VS the Focke-Wulf FW 190A.
Here it goes :
- The Spitfire was faster at medium and high altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The FW-190 was faster at low altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The Spitfire had a better climb, it was even more noticable over 22,000 feet
- The FW-190 was faster and more manoeuvrable in dive
- The Spitfire was better in sharp turns
And concerning the British Aces, keep a thing in mind : most of Allied Aces (excluding USA) flew Spitfires. (James Edgar Johnson, Pierre H. Clostermann...)
Moreover, the US Navy bought Spitfires for use on carriers because they couldn't successfully land a P-51 on them.
Don't piss on the Spitfire, it was a better plane than you could imagine.
KraziKanuK said:Maestro,
DJ_Dalton,
if you are going to name aces, please get the name correct.Johnson's name was James E. "Johnny" not Jim. The top RAF ace was Marmaduke T.St. J. Pattle.
I would not put to much stock in what Deighton has to say.
Maestro said:Dalton, you are wrong. Or, as we say in French : "You're out of the track".
In the same book than the Mustang VS Spitfire comparison, I got an other chapiter about the Spitfire Mk. IX VS the Focke-Wulf FW 190A.
Here it goes :
- The Spitfire was faster at medium and high altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The FW-190 was faster at low altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The Spitfire had a better climb, it was even more noticable over 22,000 feet
- The FW-190 was faster and more manoeuvrable in dive
- The Spitfire was better in sharp turns
Don't piss on the Spitfire, it was a better plane than you could imagine.
wmaxt said:R. Lenard posted shots of P-51s on carriers B-25s too.
The P-51 and the Spits never operated operationaly from carriers simply because 1) The Navy used only AIR cooled engines and 2) in the Hellcat/Corsair they had perfectly capable aircraft with better range and capacity for ordanance.
DJ_Dalton said:"The thing is that over Britain there weren't the numbers of German planes as there were over Germany, Russia etc. Richard Bong was the highest scoring American ace but he "only" got 40 kills"
No, I didn't say the Spitfire was a complete piece of s**t. It was just the most overrated plane of the Western Front. The arguement that the British aces didn't down as many Germans because the German planes were lacking in numbers just doesnt hold water. Mainly because the Germans killed large numbers of Spitfires in engagements. (I will grant the FW190 was responsible for a lot of that but the Bf-109's dropped Spitfires in their manner as well.) The Germans were there to be shot down, if the British pilots were able to manage it. Even a guy like Johnson got victories vs. Bombers and the like. Though he got his share of FW's and Bf's. He was good as far as his plane allowed him to be. The Spitfire was a dueling machine. The German Planes murder weapons. That was the difference.
Even the historians will tell you that it wasn't the Spitfire that won the Battle of Britian. It was the Hurricane. The Spitfire had lines that were appealing and it got a nice reputation among the populace but the reason for it was that the British goverment sold the people on its role as the lead protectorate. What it actually accomplished was far removed from the impression left by the propaganda.
Even the comparative tests are full of propaganda. All the nice data didn't hold water, so you have to ask yourself, Why? Restriction of ata, testing a gondola German plane, failure to test a contemporary of the XIV (G-10). You have to judge the merits by the combat and there the Spitfire was certainly at a disadvantage unless the German pilots got in or were forced into a sustained turn fight.
One of the leading Luftwaffe Aces was Hans Philip. He downed 178 Eastern Front planes and 28 Western Front craft. To paraphrase him he stated:
"It is a joy to fly among 20 Spitfires utilizing my aircrafts abilities vs those of the Spitfire. It is another thing altogether to fly into a formation of massed bombers with their arrayed defensive guns and be forced to drive into that maelstrom. It makes one understand that one is mortal"
Very prophetic words by Philip. He was killed shortly thereafter in a attack vs bomber formations.
The Spitfire was respected. It was not feared. Those questioning its import are always gonna win the arguement based on the head to head matchups. The Spitfire just wasn't especially effective vs. the Luftwaffe Fighters. It did have some strengths.
Maestro said:[
How can you say that when you can't name a German pilot who scored more than 40 victories on the Western Front ?