Is there a list of serial numbers of the produced Douglas Boston III planes (1 Viewer)

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Pienske

Airman
29
3
Jun 6, 2021
Hello,
I am quite new on this forum and I am trying to better understand why in the Boston III Z2157 that crashed in Wevelgem the 7th November 1942, four airmen where found on the crash scene. In most documentation on the internet you find that the crew exist out of 3 people. It's from the Boston IIIa versions that you clearly find in the manuals, that a crew of 4 is foreseen. So the mystery that I try to clear is to find some pictures are documents that can explain and clarify that we had 2 airman in the gunner compartment. So maybe it is possible that the aircraft is mentioned as a Boston III but in reality it's a Boston IIIa. So I was wondering if somewhere you can check based on the Z2157 number what was the type at manufacture.... Thanks a lot for your help.
 
Hi there!
There are several search machines for RAF-serials and you can easily find them. This one for example:
Z2157 was a Boston Mk.III, and was manufactured as DB-7B. Below are all RAF-serials for Mk.III:
The DB-7-A-20 Series.jpg
I checked the Operations Record Book of No.107 Sqdr. for November 7, 1942 and all Bostons have 4-men crews - see below.
It was not uncommon that the same a/c was manned differently, based on war theater, specific air force, type of mission etc.
Cheers!
 

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Hi there!
There are several search machines for RAF-serials and you can easily find them. This one for example:
Z2157 was a Boston Mk.III, and was manufactured as DB-7B. Below are all RAF-serials for Mk.III:
View attachment 628829
I checked the Operations Record Book of No.107 Sqdr. for November 7, 1942 and all Bostons have 4-men crews - see below.
It was not uncommon that the same a/c was manned differently, based on war theater, specific air force, type of mission etc.
Cheers!
Thanks Yves for this great information. Also based on the info you provide and data that I found, I am now able to build the teams that where send over to attack 3 different targets that day. Helped a lot!!! Thank you once more!
 
Thanks Yves for this great information. Also based on the info you provide and data that I found, I am now able to build the teams that where send over to attack 3 different targets that day. Helped a lot!!! Thank you once more!
You are very welcome!
I think I have Douglas' c/ns (construction numbers) for the 2 blocks of Boston Mk.III - I'll post them in this thread if I find them any soon. In this way you can find the c/n of Z2157.
If you want to search for some more information about No.107 Squadron (who knows what one can find ;)) check here: Search results: No.107 squadron | The National Archives
There are 389 downloadable documents (one of which I already posted partially). You just need to register/log in and they are for free.
Regards!
 
You are very welcome!
I think I have Douglas' c/ns (construction numbers) for the 2 blocks of Boston Mk.III - I'll post them in this thread if I find them any soon. In this way you can find the c/n of Z2157.
If you want to search for some more information about No.107 Squadron (who knows what one can find ;)) check here: Search results: No.107 squadron | The National Archives
There are 389 downloadable documents (one of which I already posted partially). You just need to register/log in and they are for free.
Regards!
Hi there!
There are several search machines for RAF-serials and you can easily find them. This one for example:
Z2157 was a Boston Mk.III, and was manufactured as DB-7B. Below are all RAF-serials for Mk.III:
View attachment 628829
I checked the Operations Record Book of No.107 Sqdr. for November 7, 1942 and all Bostons have 4-men crews - see below.
It was not uncommon that the same a/c was manned differently, based on war theater, specific air force, type of mission etc.
Cheers!
Hallo Yves,
I had a closer look on the picture that you included in the post... There is mentioned thet the "DB-7Bs would be build according to the revised DS-339 specifications. Any idea if it would be possible to find what was exactly defined in those specifications. I assume that this where requirements specific asked for the plains that where build for the RAF.

It also looks that there where several other specifications defined for other types of the aircraft:

DS-339 was for the DB-7B - BOSTON III

DS-354 was for the DB-7C

DS-531 was for the A-20 & A-20A

DS-434 was for the P-70 (night bomber)

 
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Hi again!
Sorry for the delay! I sent you some information in a PM - hope it answers your question.
As for the Douglas serials (construction numbers) I mentioned earlier, the batch with RAF-serials Z2155-Z2304 received Douglas serials between 3450 and 3599.
In this way Z2157 had c/n 3452.
Cheers!
 
Hello Gentlemen,
I did some investigation on the RAF 107 Squadron that was flying with the Boston III and found something quite interesting in relation to crew composition. It was from 12 April 1942 that you see that certain planes are having a crew with 2 gunners. But still, you see that the same aircraft is then flying a mission with a crew of 3 and at another moment with 4. And as mentioned already, by CATCH 22 CATCH 22 , in November 1942, all crews of the Boston III were with 4 members. The question is to find out why the RAF commando decides to add a member to the crew from April 1942? If we look further to the Boston IIIA, there we see that the pilot manual is really adjusted and is referring to a crew composition of 4. So what made them decide to fly with 4 instate of 3? Anyone some ideas?
 
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No information on the details of the RAF changes, however since the RAAF tended to follow RAF recommendations,

RAAF Boston crew for General Purpose or Dive Bomber mission 20 July 1942, memo marked cancelled
1 Pilot, Officer or Airman
1 Air Observer, Officer or Airman
1 Wireless Air Gunner, Officer or Airman

RAAF Boston crew for Intruder mission as of 22 August 1942
1 Pilot, Officer or Airman
1 Air Observer, Officer or Airman
2 Wireless Air Gunner, Officer or Airman (May be air gunner(s))

RAAF Boston crew for Intruder mission as of 3 December 1942
1 Pilot, Officer or Airman
2 Wireless Air Gunner, Officer or Airman (1 may be air gunner)
 
I can't put my finger on anything precise at the moment but there are a few things worthy of note.

Firstly 2 Group squadrons in Bomber Command started to convert from Blenheims to Bostons from Sept 1941. 88 (9/41), 226 (11/41) and 107 (1/42; operational from 3/42) being the first. So 3 place crews simply changed from one type to the other. The first operational use was on 12 Feb 1942.

The losses in these squadrons in 1941 had been pretty horrendous, as the CO 2 Group, AVM Stevenson was fixed on using low level bombing tactics when raids were not carried out in conjunction with Fighter Command big sweeps. The losses even worried Churchill apparently. The end of Dec 1941 saw a change of Command with AVM Lees taking over.

I have a recollection that tactics were changed at some point, with raids being carried out from medium level going forward. There would be no point in a Boston crew having a belly gunner on a low level raid, but there might be on a medium level raid.

The other 2 Boston squadrons in Britain at this time were 23 (alongside Havoc I from 2/42) and 418 (newly formed 11/41, operations from 3/42). But these were part of Fighter Command and were flying night intruder sorties. Did these continue to operate with 3 man crews?

Maybe the ORBs of these other squadrons might shed some light.

With regard to the Bostons used by the RAAF, 22 squadron RAAF was the only operational user. Many of their aircraft had the navigator's position in the nose filled with an additional 4x0.5" guns for use in the low level strafing role in New Guinea. Later still they received solid nosed A-20G as replacements. Those aircraft would have been limited to 3 crew as a result.
 
No information on the details of the RAF changes, however since the RAAF tended to follow RAF recommendations,

RAAF Boston crew for General Purpose or Dive Bomber mission 20 July 1942, memo marked cancelled
1 Pilot, Officer or Airman
1 Air Observer, Officer or Airman
1 Wireless Air Gunner, Officer or Airman

RAAF Boston crew for Intruder mission as of 22 August 1942
1 Pilot, Officer or Airman
1 Air Observer, Officer or Airman
2 Wireless Air Gunner, Officer or Airman (May be air gunner(s))

RAAF Boston crew for Intruder mission as of 3 December 1942
1 Pilot, Officer or Airman
2 Wireless Air Gunner, Officer or Airman (1 may be air gunner)
Hello Geoffrey,
Thanks a lot for this information.
It seems that in your reply you are referring to a memo of the RAAF. Is this a memo that you can share, please?

Also, we see that the memo was canceled in July 1942 for General Purpose or Dive Bomber missions. So if they canceled this crew member configuration, was there any reference to what configuration they were switching to?

In the second part, we see that in August they are moving to a 4 crew configuration, but then specific for the intruder missions. Is there no guidelines for the "other" mission configuration?

Once more, thanks a lot for your help on this.
Much appreciated.
 
Australian archives search page, Session expired | RecordSearch | National Archives of Australia You can search as a guest.

The following files have all been scanned and can be read online, the final number is the archives barcode.
A705 151/2/87 PART 1 Organisation memoranda 1940 - 1942, 3218524
A705 151/2/87 PART 1A Organisation memoranda 1942 - 1943, 3218529
A705 151/2/87 PART 1B Organisation memoranda 1943 - 1943, 3218546
A705 151/2/87 PART 1C Organisation memoranda 1943 - 1943, 3218552
A705 151/2/87 PART 1D Organisation memoranda 1944 - 1948, 3218558

I have not been through all of them yet, Bostons are mentioned in order 141 on 20 July 1942, 151 on 22 August 1942, 198 on 3 December 1942, 310 on 8 June 1943, 345 on 17 August 1943, 503 on 1 June 1944, 579 on 2 October 1944. Amongst other crew sizes.
 
I can't put my finger on anything precise at the moment but there are a few things worthy of note.

Firstly 2 Group squadrons in Bomber Command started to convert from Blenheims to Bostons from Sept 1941. 88 (9/41), 226 (11/41) and 107 (1/42; operational from 3/42) being the first. So 3 place crews simply changed from one type to the other. The first operational use was on 12 Feb 1942.

The losses in these squadrons in 1941 had been pretty horrendous, as the CO 2 Group, AVM Stevenson was fixed on using low level bombing tactics when raids were not carried out in conjunction with Fighter Command big sweeps. The losses even worried Churchill apparently. The end of Dec 1941 saw a change of Command with AVM Lees taking over.

I have a recollection that tactics were changed at some point, with raids being carried out from medium level going forward. There would be no point in a Boston crew having a belly gunner on a low level raid, but there might be on a medium level raid.

The other 2 Boston squadrons in Britain at this time were 23 (alongside Havoc I from 2/42) and 418 (newly formed 11/41, operations from 3/42). But these were part of Fighter Command and were flying night intruder sorties. Did these continue to operate with 3 man crews?

Maybe the ORBs of these other squadrons might shed some light.

With regard to the Bostons used by the RAAF, 22 squadron RAAF was the only operational user. Many of their aircraft had the navigator's position in the nose filled with an additional 4x0.5" guns for use in the low level strafing role in New Guinea. Later still they received solid nosed A-20G as replacements. Those aircraft would have been limited to 3 crew as a result.
Hello EwenS,

Great thanks for this very interesting tactical information.

Based on the info you shared, and the advice you give to check the other squadrons, I start to have a look at the records of the 226 and the 88 squadrons. And yes... also in the records of the 226, I start to see Boston III aircrafts moving from a 3 member to a 4 member crew.
So it must be somewhere in April 1942 that there was a decision to add a second person in the gunner compartment.
Looking forward if we can find some additional information on this.

Great thanks for your support in this great adventure!
 

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