Italy v. England - Air to air

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It's interesting to note that Italy receives the least amount of attention in any WW2 conversation and yet it produced such high performing fighters. I have to remind myself not to count them out. True, they had some ground forces issues. But it would have been interesting if the Axis had standardized production of fighters with such heavy Italian influence...
 
ok when you say that the germans "played around" with with the later italian designs and were impressed, what do you expect, they've just modified them!! and i am always dubious of test data, it's a test aircraft, it's gonna be modified of made specail in some way.............

and the title of this thread is "Italy v. England - Air to air", not "Italy with German Engines Vs. England- Air to air" surely we should be comparing British planes with British engines to Italian planes with Italian engines??
 

I saw an interview with Gunter Rall, and many German Pilots did the same thing, he said they could pull high "Gs" and break away more quickly rather than just turning or diving away right side up from a bomber stream.
 
I take it that you don't think the P-51 was an American plane but really an American plane with a British engine built under license which by definition would make it not an American plane. Thus, if we were comparing the best American fighters to the best German fighters, under your analysis, the P-51 could not be included unless we were comparing the best American fighters with British engines to the best German fighters.

I don't know how to respond to your point about test aircraft necessarily being modified in some way, ostensibly to increase performance figures. I was under the impression that it was German and Italian production aircraft that were tested although I could be wrong. A test designed to capture the performance of production aircraft that does use a representative member is subject to sampling errors.

To err in your favor though, would you not agree that any German Fw-190's and Me-109's that were tested against Italian G.55's would have been modified to enhance performance as well?

You are unwilling to entertain this point or it never occurred to you. Either way, your anti-Italian bias is showing as further evidenced by statements such as, "... the spitfire, hurricane, gloster gladiator, mosquito, and yes, the Skua and the Roc were all better fighters than anything the italians had ..."
 
No, actually I didn't sense that Lanc's post was meant as a joke. Especially the point about test aircraft being modified. I guess I missed the punchline. My misunderstanding.

All is in harmony with the universe again.
 
Italian airframes were very good. The earlier planes such as the MC.200 had very good flight characteristics but simply sufered from being underpowered. Marry the Italian airframe to a German engine and you have a superb aircraft.
 
I dont think so. Later version of the Spitfire would have been better than them, but then again if the 5 series Italian fighters had gone on in production and development then they would probably have have kept ahead of the Spits.
 
I'm not sure I understand Mr. Cheese. So in September of 1943, were there any Spitfires that could match the 5 series Italian fighters. I think that's the gist of this topic.
 
Lanc, you would disagree that a Saggitario could easily take out a Hurricane.
 
the fact that i have no idea what a Saggitario is, would lead me to say no way ho!! the hurricane could easily take oge of them saggy things out.........
 
Great fan of the Hurri that I am, by the end of it's carrer in the MTO, the only a/c a Hurri could really take on was the MC.202 (I think Im right on the disgnation, I mean the big tubby one with a radial engine and 2x .50cal MGs). The 5 series would eat the Hurri for luch...
 
No, I think you mean the Macchi MC-200 Saetta



Or, the Fiat G.50 Freccia



The Macchi MC-202 Folgore could quite easily handle a Hurricane. In fact, it was known to hold its own against the P-51 and the Spitfire. (Lanc would obviously disagree but keep in mind that he's been sniffing model airplane glue for some time now )

 
Lanc, which was the best combat operational Spitfire model by September of '43. It's not clear to me which Spitfire is being compared to the 5 Series planes.

And for God's sake take that tube of glue out of your nose!
 
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