JAS 39 Gripen is growing up.... (1 Viewer)

[GTX]

I don't know how reliable this one is....

Saab seeks partnership with Canada on next-generation fighter development

Oh Saab is throwing everything at the Canadian requirement because they think there is a chance to get a sale to either replace or supplement the Canadian F-35 buy. I don't think they will be successful and have been hearing murmurings confirming that from within the Canadian Govt. The Canadians have already committed to at least 30 F-35As (two orders - 16 & 14). The first of these is expected to arrive this year. Their industry is already well involved in the program producing parts on all F-35s, not just any Canadian ones. This is obviously a politically sensitive subject for the Canadian Govt, especially the rhetoric coming from the South, though the fact that the second F-35 order was made (albeit quietly) only in February this year, I think we can see where things are going.

I don't blame Saab for their trying to get in there as a Canadian buy would be a massive win for them. They are therefore throwing a lot on all fronts at this. However, even going for a dual type fleet (F-35s and Gripens) would be an even worse (and expensive from sustainment perspective) outcome. It is also interesting that only Saab seems to be trying to get in here. If others really thought that there was a chance to upset the F-35 buy than you should see Typhoon (a better choice for Canada I feel) or Rafale being pushed but there is nothing on these fronts.

 

[Lucky13]

....at the same time I wonder sometimes, people complaining about Gripen being a single engine aircraft, well....the F-35 is a single aircraft as well ya muppet!

 

[GTX]

....at the same time I wonder sometimes, people complaining about Gripen being a single engine aircraft, well....the F-35 is a single aircraft as well ya muppet!

Really the twin vs single engined argument should be a dead one. If you look at modern engine reliability and also look at the historical stats of platforms such as the F-16 vs F/A-18, the ability of two engines to give greater reliability just isn't there. Moreover 2 engines means twice the maintenance requirements and thus arguably higher sustainment costs.

 

[Lucky13]

GTX

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Canadians have already committed to at least 30 F-35As (two orders - 16 & 14).

I'll not be surprised if we go with a dual fleet of Lightnings and Gripens. Before the Hornets we ran a dual fleet of Voodoos and Starfighters as shown below (plus a later addition of Freedom Fighters), and before then a dual fleet of Sabres and Canucks.

Air museum 8

Of course those Cold War fleets were larger, so we'd need about fifty Lightnings and sixty or more Gripens, which trends with both of PM Carney's commitments to expanding military spending and to diversify sourcing from the US.

The more interesting question is what Canada will replace the Lightnings and Gripens with into the late 2040s. I expect it won't be American or Swedish. Canada Coordinates to Join British-Japanese Stealth Fighter Program to Reduce Reliance on U.S. F-35s.

 

[MiTasol]

The RAAF have just bought their first drones. Ukraine is buying small FPV drones from Aus but the RAAF have gone with multi-million dollar units from Boeing.

Australia enters drone warfare era with Ghost Bat and Ghost Shark

Australia is on a push to keep pace with the rapid evolution of drone warfare, with an emphasis on locally produced Ghost Bat and Ghost Shark systems.

www.abc.net.au

Note that this is the first "Australian" design to go to production for 50 years. The last was the Nomad in the 70s and before that the worlds first jet powered target drone - the Jindivik in 1952.

 

[Glider]

I'll not be surprised if we go with a dual fleet of Lightnings and Gripens. Before the Hornets we ran a dual fleet of Voodoos and Starfighters as shown below (plus a later addition of Freedom Fighters), and before then a dual fleet of Sabres and Canucks.

View attachment 875952

Air museum 8

Of course those Cold War fleets were larger, so we'd need about fifty Lightnings and sixty or more Gripens, which trends with both of PM Carney's commitments to expanding military spending and to diversify sourcing from the US.

The more interesting question is what Canada will replace the Lightnings and Gripens with into the late 2040s. I expect it won't be American or Swedish. Canada Coordinates to Join British-Japanese Stealth Fighter Program to Reduce Reliance on U.S. F-35s.

I would be very surprised if many countries dont reduce reliance on US equipment across the board. There are few areas where the USA has an undeniable edge.

 

[SaparotRob]

Coca-Cola?

 

[Lucky13]

Coca-Cola?

I'd say Dr Pepper....

 

[SaparotRob]

I'd say "say what?"

 

[MiTasol]

I would be very surprised if many countries dont reduce reliance on US equipment across the board. There are few areas where the USA has an undeniable edge.

See GTX post "All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." for a good example (or two if you include the laser) of where the US lags way behind due to institutional lethargy

 

[Admiral Beez]

Coca-Cola?

IKR?

The CF-104 was an odd choice for tactical strike. In hindsight the RCAF should have not purchased either the CF104 or CF-101 Voodoo and waited for the F-4 Phantom II. I would have excelled at both the NORAD and NATO roles. Of course that would have meant we'd be operating the CF-100 and Sabre well into the 1960s. And if we did get the Phantom, our parsimonious DND would have followed Greece's example and ran them into the 2000s, meaning we'd never get the Hornets in the 1980s. Back to SAAB, I always though the Draken and Viggen would have looked sharp in RCAF colours.

 

[Dimlee]

I always though the Draken and Viggen would have looked sharp in RCAF colours.

With a longer range compared to the Phantom and CF-104.

 

[Admiral Beez]

With a longer range compared to the Phantom and CF-104.

Indeed. But back then we were stuck on two engines for the NORAD role. I've read that single engine failures on twins were rare, and that when they did occur the presence of the 2nd engine usually did not save the aircraft. My top two-engine alternatives to the Hornet (and anything America) in the early 1980s were the Panavia Tornado ADV and Dassault Mirage 4000.

 

[GTX]

I'll not be surprised if we go with a dual fleet of Lightnings and Gripens. Before the Hornets we ran a dual fleet of Voodoos and Starfighters as shown below (plus a later addition of Freedom Fighters), and before then a dual fleet of Sabres and Canucks.

It is possible but is more expensive and even with increased Defence spending is something I don't foresee Canada doing. Times have changed.

The more interesting question is what Canada will replace the Lightnings and Gripens with into the late 2040s. I expect it won't be American or Swedish.

If they're smart, it won't be crewed. I however think you will be talking 2050s/60s rather than 2040s.

 

[GTX]

IKR?

The CF-104 was an odd choice for tactical strike. In hindsight the RCAF should have not purchased either the CF104 or CF-101 Voodoo and waited for the F-4 Phantom II. I would have excelled at both the NORAD and NATO roles. Of course that would have meant we'd be operating the CF-100 and Sabre well into the 1960s. And if we did get the Phantom, our parsimonious DND would have followed Greece's example and ran them into the 2000s, meaning we'd never get the Hornets in the 1980s. Back to SAAB, I always though the Draken and Viggen would have looked sharp in RCAF colours.

One for you:

 

[Admiral Beez]

One for you:


View attachment 876035

Nice! The Viggen would have been great for the RCAF. I can only assume by its lack of export sales that the Swedish government was more neutrality focused.

As for the Phantom.

How to get Phantom II into RCAF service instead of CF-101, 104 and 116?

I’ve often thought that the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II would have done well in Canadian service in place of the CF-101 Voodoo, CF-104 Starfighter and CF-116 Freedom Fighter. There are some challenges, unit cost being top of mind of course, especially as many of the Voodoos were bought...

ww2aircraft.net

 

[Lucky13]

 

[GTX]

Works better on this one:

 

[Dimlee]

I'm a poor artist, so I asked my Gemini to do the job.