JG 1 prop spirals...

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by the mauser kid, Apr 5, 2008.

  1. the mauser kid

    the mauser kid New Member

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    I became interested in this unique feature, which I have only seen on JG 1 AC so far. Now I need second opinions or help determining a certain aircraft with what I believe to be this feature. My main source for this aircraft comes out of JG1 Defenders of the Reich volume three. On pg.279 the fw 190 A8 yellow 8 flown by Gerhard Stiemer of 3./JG 1 appears in a crash landed position. W.Nr. can not be determined. The profile shows the aircraft to have only a spiral spinner, however the actual photo suggest otherwise. There appears on the vertical blade to be an inner most stripe, then where the blade was bent due to belly landing there appears another, however it is difficult to make out as the prop is bent. I believe as it is a third group AC that the prop spiral should be yellow and the spinner spiral to be white, it appears so. I believe all others groups of JG 1 had solid white spinner to blade, except third group. Help from anyone with access to this photo or book will be greatly appreciated in understanding this unique feature. I plan to make a flying model of this particular AC in the future.
    Thanks,
    Clay
     
  2. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    I'm no expert on Luftwaffe camoflauge but Im guess you are talking about the markings on the propellor blades them selfs and not the spinner in the center. See Picture below from the book JG 1 by Kargeo. Sorry I dont have an answer to your question but maybe some one else will.
     

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  3. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    After studying the photo, it would appear that the prop spiral is probably yellow, the grey tone of the stripe compared to the yellow 8 are more similar than the white on the spinner. The spinner itself is Black or Black-Green.

    Due to the bend in the prop blade it is hard to determine if the stripe is there but it is likely that the prop spiral continues and the reflective light is hiding it.

    If you look at page 287 you will see another 190, middle left photo, the tonal value of the prop blade spiral is different to the spinner, which would indicate yellow also and probably a 3 staffel aircraft.

    So this small piece of evidence gives you some indicator that yellow was probably used on some 3 staffel aircraft.

    ...and just to help your understanding don't confuse the word group with staffel or squadron. At this time period JG 1 had 4 squadrons or staffeln in each of its Groups or Gruppen.:) In this case we are talking about 3/JG 1 which is 3 Staffel (Squadron)of I Gruppe (Group)..hope this helps..:)
     
  4. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    I believe JG 301 Fw's also had this very late war on the Ost front
     
  5. the mauser kid

    the mauser kid New Member

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    I know how Luftwaffe units are broken down, I just don't often refer to them, and so made a mistake.:rolleyes:

    "So this small piece of evidence gives you some indicator that yellow was probably used on some 3 staffel aircraft."

    Was this a question?

    If so, I was making that statement, (not claiming factual, more as a question) based on text I can no longer retrieve on the web, plus pictures from Defenders of the Reich and Bodenplatte. I was trying to find a positive correlation.

    Eric,
    That is very interesting, I would love to see a picture of an AC from other than JG 1 with a prop spiral.
     
  6. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Hi Clay, sorry no offence intended, mate!

    ("So this small piece of evidence gives you some indicator that yellow was probably used on some 3 staffel aircraft." Was this a question?)

    No, it was intended to give you a positive slant to your enquiry, judging colour in a B/W photo can be a dangerous thing, things are not always what they seem. It is very easy to get it wrong and go off in the wrong direction.
    I was simply trying to give you evidence to support your and my possible interpretation of the photo.
    ("I was trying to find a positive correlation. ") as was I.

    I have also another photo of a 2 staffel aircraft Black 2 Page 277 and a black or Red 3 in the Kagero JG 1 1944-45, both show the prop spiral, the tone appears slightly different to the white spinner spiral? Now these would be most likely white even though there is tonal difference, a colour other than white doesn't make sense in this case. Now with this in mind it doesn't necessarily mean 3 staffel didn't use Yellow but more likely white as a continuation of the white spinner spiral? but you never know it could have been possible? ...and that is basically why I am using the words probable or possible because I don't know for sure.

    Hope this helps...:)


    and yes Erich a JG301 photo would be nice....:D
     
  7. mauser kid

    mauser kid New Member

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    None taken, sorry didn't understand whether you were posing a question or what. I don't have the Kagero book, need to add another to the collection.

    By the way nice work finding the A model 190 with TA tail, that was something else.
     
  8. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome mate!..:D
     
  9. KrisJG3

    KrisJG3 New Member

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    #9 KrisJG3, Sep 30, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
    Hello,

    Please observe my post:
    Help needed with ID Luftwaffe fighter - Pommern 1945. - Page 5 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

    and look here:
    Probably:
    FW 190 A-9 White 13 WNr 980389 Lt.Hubert Swoboda (?) - I think WIA/KIA 11.03.1945 --- II./JG1 (5./JG1)

    https://picasaweb.google.com/112862...key=Gv1sRgCJ3E2cXj_OP4yAE#5913493361906944274

    This is also good picture:
    FW 190 A-9 Black 3 WNr 980219 Wilhelm Ade
    http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-190A/...-3-Wilhelm-Ade-WNr-960553-Germany-1944-02.jpg
    or here:
    http://panzer.7bb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=868


    ;)


    - could You show me this another pictures with propeller painted the same way ??
     
  10. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    This is an old thread started in 2008.
     
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