Ju-287

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Velius, Nov 23, 2008.

  1. Velius

    Velius Member

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    Hello everyone.

    Out of all the experimental aircraft of WWII, the Ju-287 fascinates me the most. I have a couple questions regarding this odd bird.

    1. Was it the first aircraft with swept forward wings?

    2. It was made up of parts from a He-177 (fuselage), B-24 (nosegear), Ju-352(main landing gear), and Ju-388 (tail assy.). Were there other planes in history (any era) built from different aircraft components?

    3. The V2 variant (if I am not mistaken) was built and powered by 6 BMW 003A turbojets arranged in clusters of three under each wing! Could this have been the first aircraft powered by 6 jet engines?

    4. What is it's post-war history?

    and...

    5. What are your personal thoughts/comments about this bird?

    Thanks 8)
     

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  2. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

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    Hi Velius,

    >1. Was it the first aircraft with swept forward wings?

    Probably only the first with wings swept forward in order to reap the benefits this brings for transonic aerodynamics.

    >Were there other planes in history (any era) built from different aircraft components?

    The closest parallel I can think of is the Fisher XP-75.

    >4. What is it's post-war history?

    The prototype was made airworthy by Ex-Junkers employees and flown for the benefit of Soviet jet bomber development. It also served as the basis for a couple more jet bomber prototypes developed in the Soviet Union by German engineers.

    >5. What are your personal thoughts/comments about this bird?

    It's pretty ugly! ;)

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  3. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    1 - Agree with Ho Hun

    2- In more recent times the 1970's Rockwell XFV-12 VTOL fighter was built using parts of the A-4 and F-4, the 1980's Grumman X-29 FSW demonstrator (hey, there's a link to the Ju-287!) used F-5 and F-16 components, its actually relatively common.

    3. The entire Junkers design staff were incorporated into the Alekseyev design bureau under the directorship of Baade (who was not allowed to have the bureau carry his name because he was German, not Russian, hence Alekseyev) where the Ju-287 was further developed and flown in its intended production guise with two engines.
     
  4. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    In looking through my PC I have dug out some pics you might be interested in;

    First up is the twin engine version of the Ju 287 as flown by the Soviets;

    [​IMG]

    Then here is the Alekseyev type 150 bomber prototype designed by the Junkers team as the EF.150;

    [​IMG]

    Their final development to fly was the VL-DDR 152 airliner in the late 1950's, here are a couple of side elevations to illustrate it;

    [​IMG]
     
  5. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    I was just about to ask if this design led to the 152 airliner 8) Did any of the Alekseyev bombers enter series production?


    As an aside, am I right in thinking that the triple-cluster engine layout in the original three-view is unique? I cant think of any other a/c, concept, prototype or mass produced that used that format.
     
  6. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    I believe you are.

    The only other "triple-jet per wing" I can think of would be the XB-48...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Flyboy2

    Flyboy2 Member

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    As far as I can tell none of the aleksayev bombers entered production
     
  8. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    You mean triple jet in a common engine nacelle? If not there were others.
     
  9. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    I was referring to the specific layout shown in the Ju-287 threeview. The XB-48 had three jets in a common nacelle, as Graeme posted, were there any other types with a three jet per wing arrangement?
     
  10. Flyboy2

    Flyboy2 Member

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    Yeah i couldn't find any.. Alot of twin jet per wing arrangments like the B-45, but no triple jet ones
     
  11. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    "You talking to me?" :)

    Yeah Matt, that's what I meant to say. Otherwise you could include the B-47.
    I now don't think the B-48 even fits the description, as I've read that there were large air tunnels between the jets. So I guess it's three evenly spaced jets, surrounded by a frame?
     
  12. Kiwikid

    Kiwikid Member

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    The EF131 posted with a three view drawing never actually flew. The Ju-287 which did fly was the Ju-287 V1 in October 1944 with four engines including two under the wing and from memory two either side of the nose.

    Given the engines had an average TBO of 25 hours in flight disintegration of engines was a real and genuine risk.
     
  13. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    In the upper photo that I posted it shows a prototype with two engines and wingtip tanks. Was this purely a postwar Soviet (or 'in the USSR') development?

    I ask because I had always assumed that Junkers intended to develop the design to this standard eventually, given the right engines, but I read recently that the planned production version had four HeS 11 engines under the wings.

    The same source also states that an EF 131 was completed and flown in Russia. Did the plane in this photo carry the EF 131 designation or is it refering to another aircraft?
     
  14. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    Hi Wayne. According to Wiki and Gunston's "Russian Aircraft" this (your top photo) is the postwar (1947?) OKB Type 140 which was rebuilt from the Type 131 which in turn was derived from the Junkers Ju 287 V2.

    The Type 131 was considered as "inferior to the Il-22."

    So the way I see it, the six-jet (two clusters of three) concept was flown, as the Type 131?...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    OKB-1 EF 140 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Ju287
     
  15. PeterEvans LEMB Admin

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    Hi there guys...

    You might want to check out the following book, hot off the press - "Junkers Ju287, Germany's Forward Swept Wing Bomber" by S.Ransom, P.Korrell P.Evans - more details from the publisher here or from Amazon here...

    The EF-131V-1 flew for the first time on 23rd May 1947 and the book covers the development of the Junkers FSW from the EF116, EF122A, B C wind tunnel models, Ju287V-1 and V-2, EF131 EF140...

    cheers
    Peter D Evans
    LEMB Administrator
     
  16. Velius

    Velius Member

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    thanks for the link Peter :)

    thanks for all your input everyone
     
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