Just How Superior

[Soren]

Soren, the nagging thing is back to anecdotal stories.

One of my dear friends was a marine Night Fighter that flew F7Fs out of Okinawa at the end of the war. He flew F4Us, F7F and also flew the F6F and F8F. He swore that the F7F was the best single piston engine fighter he ever flew and I have heard this from several pilots that flew the F7F.

It was a 'beast' in a spin (unrecoverable after 3-4), a beast in a dive above .8Mach but allegedly outclimbed the F8F by a significant margin, was faster and could out dive it. Could not turn or roll with F8F.. but I want to see the facts (lol).

And the 'freakin' thing could carry a TORPEDO...try sticking that on a P-51 (or Ta 152)

 

[comiso90]

Soren... u enjoyed that a bit too much !

 

[drgondog]

Soren -
A. That has a rather short nose for a Ta152H, and B.) That particular airplane above has a hard time doing 460mph in a dive.. but good pic anyway. I have seen it before.

we all know that most USAAF and USN a/c that had a c/l rack could carry 2000+ on a c/l rack - but only a couple could carry the torpedo

 

[AL Schlageter]

Someone needs to brush up on their airplane ID.

That plane in the photo is a Fw190A-5/U14, WNr 871 with a LTF 5b torpedo. A similar /U15 was to carry the B&V LT950.

There was a design study done to fit a torpedo to the Fw190D-12/R14 and Ta152C/R14.

 

[comiso90]

I'm sure he knows thats not a TA-152... The point being that if a FW-190 can do it.. certainly a TA-152 could

 

[Soren]

Exactly comiso90.

I have Hermann's book on the Ta-152, and the Ta-152 was like the FW-190 capable of carrying a torpedo, that was my "subtle" point

Bill,

Next time note the grin

Anyhow we are in agreement Bill.
_________________________

PS: If one can't distinguish a FW-190A from a Ta-152 then one needs glasses!

 

[drgondog]

Exactly comiso90.

I have Hermann's book on the Ta-152, and the Ta-152 was like the FW-190 capable of carrying a torpedo, that was my "subtle" point

Bill,

Next time note the grin

Anyhow we are in agreement Bill.


_________________________

PS: If one can't distinguish a FW-190A from a Ta-152 then one needs glasses!

Lol - I did 'note' the grin, did impute that a Ta 152H-1 might be able to carry a torpedo if the Fw190A could, (but would wonder why it would be tasked to do so), while apparently that was a design spec for the F7F in 1941.

And having said all that, I wonder, because not enough data available, if the F7F was the best US piston engine fighter that was actually deployed to combat in WWII

 

[drgondog]

Someone needs to brush up on their airplane ID.

That plane in the photo is a Fw190A-5/U14, WNr 871 with a LTF 5b torpedo. A similar /U15 was to carry the B&V LT950.

There was a design study done to fit a torpedo to the Fw190D-12/R14 and Ta152C/R14.

Somebody probably needs to purchase or develop a 'sarcasm detector' to easily discern the presence of 'such' when someone else is commenting on a short nose Fw190A that would take awhile to get to 460mph in a dive at 21,000 feet while the F7F was doing it in level flight.

Secondly, a design study has two conclusions - 1.) it makes sense, 2.) it doesn't. Where do torpedo carrying Ta152 and Fw 190D fit in the above category as contrasted with a very high performance fighter for sea going bellhops and naval aviators?

Hitler 'wondered' if Me 262s could carry bombs - and it could, the design study said so. and it must have made sense because the Blitz Bomber was born!

 

[AL Schlageter]

Somebody needs to know when a post is directed towards them and is not directed towards them.

Lighten up. You got no humor?

 

[drgondog]

Somebody needs to know when a post is directed towards them and is not directed towards them.

Lighten up. You got no humor?

You think I was referring to you? hell I was looking for my reading glasses so I wouldn't make such a terrible mis identification again..

 

[Civettone]

Perhaps his point was also that a Fw had to be modified to carry a torpedo while the F7F might have carried it like that...

Kris

 

[drgondog]

Perhaps his point was also that a Fw had to be modified to carry a torpedo while the F7F might have carried it like that...

Kris

LOL Kris - your point is correct but if the airframe can take the mod and do the mission it would be the same. My original point of amazement (for me) was that it was in fact designed to do just that before the war started (for us)..

Regards,

Bill

 

[Soren]

Let me make something clear:

a.) Noting sarcasm without any clues (Such as smileys) is hard if you don't know the person real well
b.) Why are we discussing this anyway ????

Seriously guys, it'll become a REAL long and boring thread if we continue nit picking like this...

 

[p14u2nv]

Future test pilot and 355th vet (again) of Vietnam, Bob White was shot down in WR-V 42-103795 P-51C on Feb 23rd, 1945.

Wow imagine my surprise to see my cousin Bob White listed after doing a 'net search for his aircraft the "Duchess of Manhattan" 42-103795 WR-V, the P-51C you listed!

Is there by any chance just one pic of that aircraft? I have looked at the Steeple Morden site yet no go. In fact I have scoured the net and nothing except tail number, name and date lost/POW status of Bob.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Dark Matter]

Thee P-51 is hardly superior(meaning very little) to the FW-190 and Bf-109.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thee P-51 is hardly superior(meaning very little) to the FW-190 and Bf-109.

Explain why you think so...

 

[Dark Matter]

FW-190s and Bf-109s were fearsome competiters, almost more than a match.

The British needed the spit IX to compete with the FW-190, and the Bf-190 had a lot more power for its size then the P-51....

 

[drgondog]

Wow imagine my surprise to see my cousin Bob White listed after doing a 'net search for his aircraft the "Duchess of Manhattan" 42-103795 WR-V, the P-51C you listed!

Is there by any chance just one pic of that aircraft? I have looked at the Steeple Morden site yet no go. In fact I have scoured the net and nothing except tail number, name and date lost/POW status of Bob.

Thanks in advance for any help.

here you are.

 

[p14u2nv]

Thank you so very much Sir, I have looked for years and I just took a chance today by asking here as you know. You have no idea how I feel right now seeing this aircraft finally after so many, many years of wondering. Since it was destroyed by flak I assumed that I never would get to see a pic. I also found out today that a book either is being written about him or has recently been released. He flew the F-80 in Japan, the X-15 as I'm sure you know and then flew F-105's in Nam with the 355th TFW at Takhli Royal Thai Air Force Base in Thailand. He was instrumental in the development of the F-15, avionics I believe was his charge. He was recently inducted into the Aeronautical Hall of Fame and has received many awards, too numerous to list.

Again thank you so very much, I am much indebted my friend.

 

[drgondog]

Thank you so very much Sir, I have looked for years and I just took a chance today by asking here as you know. You have no idea how I feel right now seeing this aircraft finally after so many, many years of wondering. Since it was destroyed by flak I assumed that I never would get to see a pic. I also found out today that a book either is being written about him or has recently been released. He flew the F-80 in Japan, the X-15 as I'm sure you know and then flew F-105's in Nam with the 355th TFW at Takhli Royal Thai Air Force Base in Thailand. He was instrumental in the development of the F-15, avionics I believe was his charge. He was recently inducted into the Aeronautical Hall of Fame and has received many awards, too numerous to list.

Again thank you so very much, I am much indebted my friend.

I am aware of his marvelous record in aviation - he was a good friend of my father and a man I had the privelege to meet when he was in the X-15 program. I may have met him earlier while we were in Japan during Korea but I was very young at the time.

I recently extended an invitation to him to speak at our 355th Reunion Banquet at San Antonio in September. He would be an inspiration to all the young 355th FW A-10 warriors. He is fondly remembered as a tiger by both his WWII and Vietnam guys.

A legend in the service of his country. As you probably know he got his AFC at Dhoumer Bridge in NV - one of the nastiest F-105 targets of the war.

If you have his email send him my warmest regards, along with Billy Sparks hello.

Bill Marshall
President, 355th Fighter Group Association