Ki-84 - uber aircraft?

[Nikademus]

1. How could I be saying there weren't USN losses when I'm the only one quoting a source matching specific USN losses (4 of VF-82) to that combat?

Thats what I was trying to clarify from the beginning. I thought I had understood you correctly after the first exchange, hence my effort to post it to make sure there was no misunderstanding...that being that what you claimed "never happened" was the 12:1 fight, not the loss count of 4 USN planes. Your last response seemed to counter that again when you responded that you felt it "didn't happen at all"

2. As I already said, right in the quote. But 6 victories credited and none scored would be rare for USN claims at that stage of the war, see below.

why?

The burden is not on you to scan and post from it (as mentioned I do plan to buy Shores' forthcoming rewrite, a project announced in an email from Shores posted on 12 O'Clock High forum).

I think your misunderstanding me. If it's a "burden" to post any of the excerpts from Sakaida then by all means don't. Since you want to re-bring up Shores....I have posted some exerpts from it relating to other recent subjects as well as 1 or 2 other sources in trying to present some insight into discussions they were connected too. I recall saying in the Tunisia tangent that I didn't feel the desire to do so on that subject since we were nitpicking over a small varience on the range of the potential kills, a varience that existed even among the several sources you quoted. Here...well I havn't found much info at all on the battle and was interested in seeing more. I guess i'll have to hunt down a copy of Sakaida when i get a chance. In other words, i'm interested. thats all.

But as far as the published source here Muto's wife told Sakaida that Muto said his achievement had been fictionalized by the official press. I see no validity in 'falling back' on other sources that just researched it less.

As i've said, I don't have a problem believing that the battle was distorted. However I did object to claims that the whole thing was fictionalized. I was hoping for some hard numbers. What Muto allegedly told his wife and then passed on to Sakaida is not hard numbers. 's-all i'm saying. In the end 4 planes were lost according to the USN. If Muto had pals covering his back and distracting enemy planes it stands to more reason that he could have pulled a tactical upset.

But, for alternative instantly accessible source I found this post on a Japanese forum.
So the mythical nature of one on many is not all hanging on Henry Sakaida.

I'm afraid my Japanese is rusty. Thats why i was curious on anything you might post from Sakaida's book.

As for Shiden doing better than Zero in 1945 combats, stands to reason but to what degree, can you provide this info? It's one issue being debated on that forum page I quoted, actually. USN claim/loss stats by type actually say otherwise, though those stats were plagued with mis-id's of the enemy as already mentioned.

If your basing plane effectiveness based mainly on claim/loss stats you can pretty much argue anything since those stats are impacted by more than just the stats of the plane. I'm not suprised at all that the stats would not indicate such....given the state of Japan's pilot corp, her logistical situation and the quality of the manufactering by that period.

And again Sakaida quoted 1:3 ratio for the Shiden-kai equipped 343rd AG (in "Genda's Blade"), and that unit had a concentration of notable pilots of the 1945 JNAF, not just a better plane.
Joe

Without looking at the individual battles....again, one could draw about any conclusion they want. CR-42's traded 1:1 with Hurricanes early in the battles over Malta. Should i conclude that the Hurricane has no superiority or that Gladiators would do just as well or better?