Kingfisher at Pearl Harbor

[hawkeye2an]

Ran across this from local newspaper and meaning no disrespect to the Naval Aviator who lost his life that day I had to say no he did not get shot down. I started to do a bit of research and found images of one of the OS2Us still on the catapult. So I am 99.99% sure that the article is mistaken. Anyone know if any of the Kingfishers got into the air that day?

 

[Capt. Vick]

Hmmm...

Face saving or fog of war?

 

[GrauGeist]

He is listed as: "missing in action, remains never recovered"

Also, the OS2U was still entering service and the dominant scout for the Battleships and Cruisers was the SOC-3.

On the morning of 7 December, there were between 20 and 30 "free float" aircraft ashore, which were the Kingfisher and Seagull, the latter being in the majority. These belonged to the Battleships (four per ship) and Cruisers (two per ship) and were ashore while their "home ships" were at anchor.

However, the California, West Virginia, Oklahoma and Nevada had their compliments aboard.

The only USN aircraft that I have read being shot down, were the Enterprise's SBDs as they arrived in the middle of the attack, plus some of the PBYs trying to get aloft from the seaplane anchorage.

The California was soon to be leaving and had more steam than the Nevada, but the California took two torpedo hits before she could get underway. So in the confusion, Ensign Richey *may have* tried to get aloft, but between the torpedo hits and the bomb that also struck the California, was killed in the process.

 

[hawkeye2an]

See image of California. Clearly a Kingfisher and clearly NOT in the air. Yes, she was preparing to get underway and thus would have had her aircraft aboard. Later newspaper clippings say he was a dive-bomber pilot. So I believe the newspaper article simply guessed at how he might have died.

 

[GrauGeist]

See image of California. Clearly a Kingfisher and clearly NOT in the air. Yes, she was preparing to get underway and thus would have had her aircraft aboard. Later newspaper clippings say he was a dive-bomber pilot. So I believe the newspaper article simply guessed at how he might have died.

I agree.

Some of the best photos of the status of the ships that morning, were from the Japanese, interestingly enough.

The very fact that he was there, that morning, places him in the hall of honor.

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi guys,

A few years back I had a chance to review California's deck logs. Here are my notes from 7 December 1941:

moored berth F-3; attacked 0750; returned fire 0803; 0925 2-O-5 capsized while getting off ship; 0930 lowered 2-O-4 over side - taxied to NAS. 2115 three planes approached from down channel showing running lights. Ships present opened fire, destroying one plane.

I can presume that the aircraft seen on the high cat after the attack was 2-O-6, or it could have been a flagplane.

Ensign Richey might have been in one of the two Kingfishers that tried to move to safety, perhaps dying in 2-O-5 or dying later after moving 2-O-4. It was a time where many parents lost sons - reports that those sons died as heros often helped...

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Peter Gunn]

Speaking of Pearl Harbor, yesterday was the 80th anniversary, today, 80 years ago, my father and his brothers got in his '37 Chevy, drove to Detroit and enlisted in the U.S.A.A.F.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hi guys,

A few years back I had a chance to review California's deck logs. Here are my notes from 7 December 1941:

moored berth F-3; attacked 0750; returned fire 0803; 0925 2-O-5 capsized while getting off ship; 0930 lowered 2-O-4 over side - taxied to NAS. 2115 three planes approached from down channel showing running lights. Ships present opened fire, destroying one plane.

I can presume that the aircraft seen on the high cat after the attack was 2-O-6, or it could have been a flagplane.

Ensign Richey might have been in one of the two Kingfishers that tried to move to safety, perhaps dying in 2-O-5 or dying later after moving 2-O-4. It was a time where many parents lost sons - reports that those sons died as heros often helped...

Cheers,



Dana

Great info, Dana!

Thanks!

 

[hawkeye2an]

Hmmm...

Face saving or fog of war?

...and a lack of knowledge of the role of aircraft on a Battleship

 

[hawkeye2an]

I agree.

Some of the best photos of the status of the ships that morning, were from the Japanese, interestingly enough.

The very fact that he was there, that morning, places a him in the hall of honor.

Yes, in my post on the Facebook Page I start by saying that I in no way want to take anything away from a man who lost his life in service to our country. I should have started this post the same way.

 

[hawkeye2an]

Hi guys,

A few years back I had a chance to review California's deck logs. Here are my notes from 7 December 1941:

moored berth F-3; attacked 0750; returned fire 0803; 0925 2-O-5 capsized while getting off ship; 0930 lowered 2-O-4 over side - taxied to NAS. 2115 three planes approached from down channel showing running lights. Ships present opened fire, destroying one plane.

I can presume that the aircraft seen on the high cat after the attack was 2-O-6, or it could have been a flagplane.

Ensign Richey might have been in one of the two Kingfishers that tried to move to safety, perhaps dying in 2-O-5 or dying later after moving 2-O-4. It was a time where many parents lost sons - reports that those sons died as heros often helped...

Cheers,



Dana

Thank you so much for the info. I will pass it on to his cousin. He has done quite a bit to keep Joseph's memory alive locally (St Joseph, MO)

 

[GrauGeist]

Yes, in my post on the Facebook Page I start by saying that I in no way want to take anything away from a man who lost his life in service to our country. I should have started this post the same way.

Questioning the news article's accuracy doesn't diminish Ens. Richey's sacrifice, so no worries.

There was so much confusion that morning, that even now, there's still missing pieces to the puzzle.

News agencies have always been notorious for either mixing up information or embellishing in order to either add interest or fill in blanks.

Dana's info is a solid clue as to his demise, though.

 

[hawkeye2an]

Questioning the news article's accuracy doesn't diminish Ens. Richey's sacrifice, so no worries.

There was so much confusion that morning, that even now, there's still missing pieces to the puzzle.

News agencies have always been notorious for either mixing up information or embellishing in order to either add interest or fill in blanks.

Dana's info is a solid clue as to his demise, though.

You are 100% spot on. nothing to diminish his sacrifice. To me, hearing from Dana Bell was like a light shining down from heaven. Such a respected guru of our interests, a real gift to us enthusiasts for years.

 

[Mike Wenger]

One of the disappointing facets of my research for our NASPH book, was the nearly total lack of documentation regarding the SOC/OS2U flights from Pearl Harbor subsequent to the attack. The spotty dispatch traffic--preserved to/from the Tangier, and some to/from CinCPac--mentions occasional side numbers, but very little apart from that. There are decoration citations for Lt.(j.g.) Ginn and RM2c Robert who crashed offshore in 4-O-7 close to Barbers Point on the evening of 7/8 December, but no names are mentioned for the other OS2Us. There were about four of them that went up, based on the dispatches (including two from the Arizona). Ens. Rafael Semmes took up an SOC after the attack... that, documented in a report from the St. Louis Aviation Unit.

Gobs of stuff on the JRS-1s and J2Fs from VJ-1, though.

Here is a photo (heavily cropped) of 2-O-4 putzing down the channel from the California toward the seaplane base.

Best...

Mike Wenger

 

[GrauGeist]

One of the disappointing facets of my research for our NASPH book, was the nearly total lack of documentation regarding the SOC/OS2U flights from Pearl Harbor subsequent to the attack. The spotty dispatch traffic--preserved to/from the Tangier, and some to/from CinCPac--mentions occasional side numbers, but very little apart from that. There are decoration citations for Lt.(j.g.) Ginn and RM2c Robert who crashed offshore in 4-O-7 close to Barbers Point on the evening of 7/8 December, but no names are mentioned for the other OS2Us. There were about four of them that went up, based on the dispatches (including two from the Arizona). Ens. Rafael Semmes took up an SOC after the attack... that, documented in a report from the St. Louis Aviation Unit.

Gobs of stuff on the JRS-1s and J2Fs from VJ-1, though.

Here is a photo (heavily cropped) of 2-O-4 putzing down the channel from the California toward the seaplane base.

View attachment 706022

Best...

Mike Wenger

In the photo, is that a crewman crouched on the wing next to the cockpit?

 

[Mike Wenger]

Hmmm... probably. There was so much debris in the water, and it was well nigh impossible to see forward over the cowling. From surviving reports, the PBYs taking off had to do a real dance around the flotsam in the water, so as to avoid puncturing the hull.

There are other details that are cropped out of the photo... a fire truck (pumper) on one of the seaplane ramp sucking water out of the harbor for fire fighting.

See below...

MW

 

[Peter Gunn]

Hmmm... probably. There was so much debris in the water, and it was well nigh impossible to see forward over the cowling. From surviving reports, the PBYs taking off had to do a real dance around the flotsam in the water, so as to avoid puncturing the hull.

There are other details that are cropped out of the photo... a fire truck (pumper) on one of the seaplane ramp sucking water out of the harbor for fire fighting.

See below...

MW

View attachment 706031

MIke, when was this photo taken, the day of the attack?

Thanks

 

[Mike Wenger]

Peter,

It was taken on 7 December about mid-morning to midday, judging from California's deck logs, and the shadow underneath the fire truck. California's deck log has the following entry:

"0930 large patch of fuel oil between berths F-3, and F-4 [north of the California in Berth F-3, but south of the Fueling Pier (Berth F-4) where the Neosho lay berthed] was ignited and commenced drifting toward ship. Lowered plane 2-0-4 over the side, plane taxied to Naval Air Station, Ensign S.M. Haley, U.S.N.R., pilot."

Unfortunately, the timeline as presented in California's deck log for 7Dec41 is jumbled up pretty badly, with events in the wrong order and with erroneous timestamps. All that is understandable considering that the logs of many vessels were reconstructed after the fact, rather than as the events occurred. Some ships are far better than others, with some much worse.

Assuming that the 0930 timestamp was in some "correct," it might signify that preparations to set out the OS2U got underway at that time, with the pilot starting the engine and taxiing down the channel somewhat after, or considerably later. Although shadows are difficult to interpret, they indicate a time closer to midday.

Photo of Ens. (then Lt.(j.g.) Sebron M. Haley from 1942 attached.

Mike W.

 

[Mike Wenger]

Here is the uncropped version of the PH photo.
Note the long shadow on the PBY at far left. Perhaps it was taken around 0930-1000.
But, then there is the "direct" shadow on the PBY at far right. Hmmmm.
Need to get out a map of the harbor.
MW

 

[Capt. Vick]

They look like toys. Like those forced prospective pictures.