Luftwaffe Cannons and Machineguns topic.

[Tony Williams]

They were .303 Brownings.

An interesting experiment and more sophisticated than the later Luftwaffe Schräge Musik: not only could the guns be retracted, their elevation could be altered.

That just makes it all the more surprising that it took the RAF so long to ackowledge that Schräge Musik was being used against their bombers.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks Tony, those heavy barrels doesnt looked like ,303 to me. I tough was a bigger caliber.

 

[CharlesBronson]

SG 113, part II.

Two images of the Rechlin test with the SG 113.

Missed shot on t-34.

Hit on top armor.

SG 113 in FW-190F:

Into the FW 190 twin tubes were built in each case on the right of and left by the trunk into the surfaces. The effect of the weapon was considerable, depending upon hit angle could it one 40 mm strong armoring with 60° and 50 mm with 75° impact angle smoothly pierce and/or strongly distort and promised thus a good success with the fight of armored targets.

To monitoring of the hit results was done via one parallel to the weapon inserted Robot camera with the shot was at the same time released.

Both tubes were installed into a common lining stood out in each case 700mm above and down from the bearing area of the L.G. 190. For forced down landings the SG 113 barrel could be ejected by means of small explosive charges by a simple mechanism below 300 km/h.

Flying path of aproach to target with the SG 113, note the sensors one below each wing.

Is not know if the SG 113 was actually used in combat.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Reinhmetall SG 116 'Zellendusche'

Sonder Gerät 116 'Zellendusche' ( cell shower) was a recoiless 30mm cannon.This equipment was developed, in order to make attacks possible on hostile bomber formations by flying underneath.

The triggering device was operated by means a "photoelectric cell feeler", a plant working according to kind of the exposure meter, which was released only directly during the target approach before flying underneath the opponent.

Sensor devices were manufactured by the company Opta-Radio. The weapon was built with Rheinmetall Borsig. The SG 116 was built into three different arrangements: four pieces in rhombic form in the trunk, six pieces in double triangle form or 3 pieces in line in the trunk sidewall with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees.The last model of the SG 116 was emplaced in the FW-190. Several testing took place with whe FW-190, He-117 even the lesser Fw 58.

Lenght of individual barrel: 1,65 m
Muzzle speed. 825 m/s.

 

[ChrisMAg2]

Reinhmetall SG 116 'Zellendusche'

Sonder Gerät 116 'Zellendusche' ( cell shower) was a recoiless 30mm cannon.This equipment was developed, in order to make attacks possible on hostile bomber formations by flying underneath.

You could also have said: ...a recoiless cannon based on the barrels of 30mm MK 101 and it's ammo.

...

The triggering device was operated by means a "photoelectric cell feeler", a plant working according to kind of the exposure meter, which was released only directly during the target approach before flying underneath the opponent.

Sensor devices were manufactured by the company Opta-Radio. The weapon was built with Rheinmetall Borsig. The SG 116 was built into three different arrangements: four pieces in rhombic form in the trunk, six pieces in double triangle form or 3 pieces in line in the trunk sidewall with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees.The last model of the SG 116 was emplaced in the FW-190. Several testing took place with whe FW-190, He-117 even the lesser Fw 58.

...

"Photozellenfühler"
Sometimes a literary translation doesn't make sense at all: You shouldn't translate cover up names in order to name/ describe a device. And the explaination is also not quite correct: It is not a kind of exposure meter, but a Selenium light sensor that works similar to a photographic exposure meter. It reacts only to light/ the absense of light. In this case it triggers on the shadow of the underflown a/c.

"...with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees".
First, correctely, it should be "Spreizung".
Second, this translates to "fanning" or "inclination".

"Nichts für ungut!"

 

[CharlesBronson]

You could also have said: ...a recoiless cannon based on the barrels of 30mm MK 101 and it's ammo.

NO, definately I wont not say that because the ammo used in the MK-101 have a brass/steel percussion cartrigde wich the SG 116 lacks. The SG 116 used a self combustible electric ignited case.

Better luck the next time you want to correct me.

"Photozellenfühler"
Sometimes a literary translation doesn't make sense at all: You shouldn't translate cover up names in order to name/ describe a device. And the explaination is also not quite correct: It is not a kind of exposure meter, but a Selenium light sensor that works similar to a photographic exposure meter. It reacts only to light/ the absense of light. In this case it triggers on the shadow of the underflown a/c.

"...with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees".
First, correctely, it should be "Spreizung".
Second, this translates to "fanning" or "inclination".

Sorry my brainy friend but the german is not the most descriptive language in the world so is pretty logic that one could made mistakes.

"Nichts für ungut!"

Gut or not gut is the only topic in the entire web dealing with the german cannons in so detailed manner. deal with that !!

 

[genkideskan]

In fact they used stored MK 103 barrels from luftwaffen depots with minor modifications in the chamber, a 3 cm Minenprojectile, powder in a cardboard tube and a breech piece with a counterweight rod. The primers where electrical fired converted primers from the 21cm rockets.
It never reaches production level. The trials ended in december 1944 and the
SD 116 was dropped.

The photo device used an cäsium tube ( similar to glas radio tubes) of 90mm length very similar to this speciem.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Thansk for the aditional info.

Another weapon the use the sensitive system was the SG 500, 50 mm jagdfaust, there is nice information here:

Komet weapons: SG500 Jägerfaust

 

[Graeme]

Expanding on CB's post regarding the SG113A.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Beautiful, thanks Graeme.

here another drawing of the ammo used by this cannon.

 

[Graeme]

Sorry Charles, again not Luftwaffe, but interesting?

The Tupolev Tu-2Sh, designed for strafing ground troops. The holder of the record for the worlds largest number of guns mounted on an aircraft! Eighty-eight PPsh submachine guns, each with its own drum magazine, fixed to fire forwards and downwards.


The gun pallet lowered from the bomb-bay.

 

[Civettone]

I wonder why they developed both the SG 116 AND the SG 500 as they were similar systems. Seems a bit of a waste. Better to chose one to develop to make them operational sooner instead of dividing resources between the two.

In any case the R4M made them obsolete overnight.
Kris

 

[Micdrow]

Talk about a wall of lead, seems very unpractical though. Just the man power alone to rearm would take forever. Interesting none the less though. Thanks Graeme.

 

[genkideskan]

Dont forgett - the SG weapons are trials - several companys develope in different systems and calibers.
At last a caliber of 30mm was tested the rock bottom against bombers.
Finally the SG 500 and SG 116 where ordered to produce- the main problem was the ignition system - not the weapon - using more or less material available or from current production.
The accuracy of the R4M wasnt that good - so they try to produce a cheap accurat weapon .

 

[CharlesBronson]

Sorry Charles, again not Luftwaffe, but interesting?

The Tupolev Tu-2Sh, designed for strafing ground troops. The holder of the record for the worlds largest number of guns mounted on an aircraft! Eighty-eight PPsh submachine guns, each with its own drum magazine, fixed to fire forwards and downwards.

Definately the VV-S guns deserve a topic for it exclusively, If I have enough time I will give a try on that subject.

 

[CharlesBronson]

FW Tank Ta-152 B projected armament:

Squematics showing the heavy armament layout proposed for the high altitude fighter TA-152 ausf B.

5 x 20 mm Mausers plus one MK-103 and two MK-108 30 mm, posibility of two more cannons with field conversion, in some sources the wingroots guns are Mauser MG 213 but I am not sure if those revolver-guns could be synchronizated.

 

[CharlesBronson]

55 mm MK 112.

Rheinmetall Borsig design for a heavy fast firing cannon, it was more or less an up-scaled variant of the successful 30 mm MK 108. The requeriment of 1944 included the need of a cheap construction and not to used a lot of high grade steel, in this way contruction involved several parts of stamped and welded metal.

The calibre was 55 x 175 mm, rate of fire-300-350 rpm, the projectiles used were minengranate exclusively.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Rare modification in a ju-87D-3, note the side mounted MG 81J in the rear gunner emplacement, one in port and other starboard

The aircraft belongs to pilot Uffz. Wolfinger (right) and Lt. Neumüller Bordfunker

 

[Tony Williams]

Rare modification in a ju-87D-3, note the side mounted MG 81J in the rear gunner emplacement, one in port and other starboard

Curious; there seem to be two sets of sights, both pointing to the rear, with no guns for them

 

[CharlesBronson]

One of the missing guns in below the left arm of the first guy at the right. The double sights were used to ease the "lead" of aiming in deflection shots. In order to fire at targets straght behind the Ju-87 , the gunner used mostly his tracers as aiming help.