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Self Defence in my opinion would be the wrong term to use. I think an more apt description would be Self Preservation. I don't believe they would bail not before engaging B-17 formations. I would believe that some would have say coming apon P-47s or P-51s that severely outnumbered them. that would be more plausable.
theres only one reason not to shoot a pilot in a chute, and thats simply that you dont want it done to your people!
well Eisenhower expressly forbad it in a memo to his commanders. Even he knew it was happening. anyways, like I said, thats how it worked out. I NEVER said however that it was carried out in only that way.Ratsel posted - How it actually worked out, over Germany at least, was that American fliers were instructed to shoot at German pilots under their chutes. German pilots were instructed not to shoot American pilots under their chutes.
no, they couldn't do what they wanted. that goes for both sides.Individual pilots on both sides knew in most cases nobody was looking over their shoulders all the time, and it was a big sky they were fighting in. They could do what they wanted and nobody would get singled out if they stepped out of line, because it was usually impossible to track down who was responsible.
Chivalry was alive and well, on both sides of the European conflict in WWII. well, except for the russians french (just my opinion. so no hate mail please).Chivalry in war is a oxymoron.
How it actually worked out, over Germany at least, was that American fliers were instructed to shoot at German pilots under their chutes. German pilots were instructed not to shoot American pilots under their chutes.
if you could post this document, that would be most appreciated. I had one that mentioned General Jimmy Doolittle by name (not from President Eisenhower), but darn if I can find it nowToo, Eisenhower expressly forbad it in a memo to his commanders (however, the memo was about a larger issue) just before D-Day. This indicates that it happened often enough that he felt compelled to do something about it.
I guess he would have a mech. problem after rammingSeptember 23, 1944.
Operation Market-Garden. Two fighter Gruppen from JG2 and JG26 are strafing ground targets. CPT Eder is leading the attack. They receive word from the FLIVO (Luftwaffe forward air control net) that swarms of bandits were over the Zuider-Zee.
Aster 53, a JG26 pilot, declared that he had a mechanical problem. CPT Eder thought otherwise.
"You've filled your trousers! Ram them and then climb out. After that then you can say you've got a mechanical problem."
.....from "It Never Snows in November" by Robert Kershaw
The Germans had the Leonidas Squadron, which was a true "Self-sacrifice missions" (Selbstopfereinsatz) unit. Goering showed little intrest, and Hitler did not like it at all. there were few deployments, mostly against bridges to hinder russian advances towards Berlin. with no appreciable results.Having said that, the only question mark I have is that of the Japanese who's life values where a little different to the other nations involved in WW2.
Cheers
John
Who gave these instructions?
I might be wrong (I will admit if I am), but I don't believe that such instructions were ever given.
nor will you likely read about it. it was a wink,wink, nod proposition. also, you will not(possibly not) see any documenting the act of deliberatly shooting pilots under there chutes. but it existed, to the point of enacting rules. (Article 42 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol 1)).Yep, I have never read anything to verify the shooting (execution) of parachuting bailed out pilots on either side of WW2.
What reception the pilots received when they landed is another matter.
Cheers
John
if you could post this document, that would be most appreciated.
thank you SirLetter from Supreme Allied Commander General Dwight D. Eisenhower to Air Officer Commanding RAF Bomber Command, Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur T. Harris and Commander United States Strategic Air Force, Lieutenant General Carl A. Spaatz, 2nd June 1944.
I would add that similar considerations apply to enemy airmen compelled to escape by parachute. Such personnel are not legitimate military targets, and may not be deliberately attacked.
Source - Public Record Office WO 219 325
Discipline training. that will dictate ones next move (a direct quote from my Grandfather).I ask an open question...would you shoot a bailed out pilot if you were a pilot in WW2?
John