Martin Baltimore

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Wildcat, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. Wildcat

    Wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Gents, the Martin Baltimore to me, is one of the great unknown aircraft of WWII. It served successfully in the MTO with 5 different airforces with 1575 a/c being produced. Questions, How come it was never used as a light bomber or recce a/c over continental Europe? Was it deemed incapable of operating in that theatre, if the similar Boston could, surely the Baltimore would have been able to. Was there simply no need for another light bomber, taking into account the multitude of a/c already fulfilling that role (Boston, mossie plus all the fighter bombers etc). Why no interest from the USAAF?
    Sorry lots of questions, but after reading a couple of books about RAAF squadrons that flew the type in the desert, I've had a bit of interest in this a/c which doesn't seem to get talked about much.


    Some pics of 454 sqn RAAF Baltimores.
    pics 1,2 and 3 from Australian War Memorial: One of the world's great museums rest unknown
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Wildcat

    Wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Sorry didn't know those two pics were so freakin HUGE!!!
     
  3. Marshall_Stack

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    Sorry that I don't have an answer to your question, but the pics are cool. Any info on the one above the harbor? Curious to where that is.....

    I see in your avatar that you show the Vultee Vengeance. For the most part I heard that they weren't very good aircraft but that your fellow countryman made good use of them in Burma.
     
  4. Wildcat

    Wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Somewhere over Italy, couldn't give you the exact city sorry mate.

    The Vengeance was an excellent dive bomber that proved highly effective in pin point attacks against Japanese positions. The RAF and Indian AF used them to good effect in Burma. The a/c in my sig belongs to 24 sqn RAAF, who along with 3 other vengeance squadrons operated successfully, although relatively shorlty, in New Guinea.
     
  5. machine shop tom

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    The Baltimore was derived from the Maryland, which was a fast bomber for it's generation, but was cramped and inadequately armed. The Baltimore had a deeper fuselage, more powerful engines, and somewhat more armament. It was still cramped due to the very narrow fuselage.

    The Baltimore certainly performed a valuable service to the allied cause, principally in the MTO. Their exploits are overshadowed in part because few, if any were used by the U.S. However, they were in the thick of the fighting from Tunisia and Sicily to Italy and the Balkans.

    tom
     
  6. maxs75

    maxs75 Member

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    Baltimore not in Europe? I believe that was a way to simplfy logistics. I believe the same reason for USAAF did not use B-25 in UK. Probably another model of twin engine bomber was not needed along with Blenheim, Mitchell, Boston, Mosquito, Ventura, B-26, A-20...
    I read once tha PBM Mariner was liked by RAF but for the same reason it was not used in UK and not acquired by RAF in bigger numbers.

    Baltimore used by 5 Air Forces: RAF, RAAF, SAAF and who else?

    Max
     
  7. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    I've got Australia, France, Great Britain, Greece, Italy, South Africa and Turkey.
    ('Combat Aircraft of World War Two' by Weal and Barker)

    Very nice photos Wildcat.
     
  8. maxs75

    maxs75 Member

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    You are so right!

    Thanks
     
  9. william g moore jr

    william g moore jr New Member

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    Great photos!! My dad was an RAF ferry command pilot and delivered many Baltimore's to the African theater. Vicar taught him some of the A-30 secrets to survival. Seems when rigged with long range tanks, they were a real pain to get airborne. If it wasn't lined up when the tail wheel came up you chopped the throttles or got ready to ground loop. The delivery stats were not good. Seems they had a hard time getting out of Nassau.

    Dad was going to write a book about them, but never got past the preliminary info stages.
     
  10. Sydhuey

    Sydhuey Member

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    Info I have found on the Baltimore said the main reason it was not used as much as the Boston in particular was its handling, take off and landing and was not as maneuverable as the Boston, one report I read the pilot quoted what a handfull it was when fully loaded, while Boston crews constantly praise the Boston for its handling and Maneuverability also as with Bostons tail defensive armament not up to scratch with early examples(Boston as well) rectified with late Mk IIIA's with power turret with 2 x .50's also later marks of Boston able to carry up to 4000lbs bomb load. An old friend of the family (now gone) flew Baltimores with 454 Sqn RAAF and liked them said they were a huge improvment over Blenheims and Marylands but surpased by later B-25's and A-20's (he latter flew B-26's which he didn't like)
     
  11. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    Not one I have heard much about. Thanks for the info. Another one was the Ventura which was actively used in the Pacific, but has been largely forgotten about.
     
  12. stug3

    stug3 Active Member

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    A bomb-aimer of No 223 Squadron, RAF checks over his bomb sight in Martin Baltimore aircraft `N-NAN’. The open bomb-bay doors give a glimpse of general purpose 250-pounder bombs.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    Not here it hasn't. Although this example is one of only a handful of PV-1/B-34s to survive.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. againstthebar

    againstthebar New Member

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    Great picture and thanks very much from the son of a 223 Squadron air-gunner 1942-44!

    Do you have access to any more photographs? Elsewhere in this thread I read of the tendency of this plane to nose-over incidents on take-off....

    I've just tried to attach a picture of the results of just such an incident! 7th April 1943: crew (dad included) climbed out unhurt and took photographs. Starboard wheel was sent up through the engine nacelle....

    Unfortunately the image = 1.18 MB which is apparently above the site-limit! Shame. Perhaps some advice?
     
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  15. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #15 Wurger, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
    Just resize the picture down to the 800 picels in the width before posting here. In the way the file size can be reduced to the decent one.

    And by the way the site allows to post images up to 5MB.
     
  16. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Very cool, welcome aboard!

    I hope you can post the pics.
     
  17. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    A fact often overlooked is that the Baltimore was designed for the British. It was developed to a British requirement; the USA never used it in service. Orders were placed for the RAF following the passing of the Lend Lease Bill.

    Yep, post away; would be nice to see photos.
     
  18. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    It actually was ordered by the joint Anglo-French Purchasing Commission and was to be built at a French financed building in Middle River. All the ones ordered by the US were canceled, though a number of them supplied via Lend-Lease were assigned USAAF serial numbers. Only one ever saw service of any kind with the US and that was as a test aircraft the US Navy acquired from the RAF in 1946.

    from Martin Aircraft 1909-1960 by Breihan/Piet/Mason
     
  19. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    Yep, Bill. Like the maryland, once the French were knocked out of the war, the Baltimores went to the UK.
     
  20. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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    Royal Air Force Martin Model 187 "Baltimore" Bomber, Nov. 1941

    Martin Baltimore_03.JPG

    Royal Air Force Martin Model 187 "Baltimore" Bomber Formation. January, 1943

    Martin Baltimore_04.JPG
     
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