Matt Clear Coat ?

[Airframes]

I might have asked this question before, some time ago, but I am desperately looking for suggestions for a good, clear matt acrylic varnish.
I've specified 'acrylic', as enamel and polyurethane matt clear coats tend to 'yellow' with age, once applied.

Until the change to Johnson's 'Klear' (Future) in the UK, I had happily used this for over twenty years, both as a gloss coat, and mixed with Tamiya Flat Base to produce matt, satin, and other variations. As has been discussed elsewhere, the formula change, at least in the UK, forced me to change to the relatively new Humbrol Gloss Clear, which, as a gloss coat, works quite well.
However, when adding the Tamiya FB, the sprayed results, even after experimenting and testing before spraying, are very variable, and unpredictable, especially over a 'mixed' surface finish, where perhaps both matt and satin paints (enamels) have first been gloss clear-coated.
The results range from an even, matt surface finish, through semi-matt, to a patchy semi-matt, with areas of greyish-white 'frosting', where the varnish has perhaps accumulated, for exampe around raised detail, or wing trailing edges, showing the matting agent when dry.
The latter happened on the Mitchell in a recent GB, and has now happened on the Mosquito FB.VI in the 'Twin-Engined' GB, even though the same varnish mix was used on the Mosquito NF.XII in the same GB, which dried without problems, albeit with a not-quite matt finish.
Apart from the frustration of progress being delayed due to this problem, it's got to the point where I am very wary, almost nervous, of spraying the matt clear coat, for fear of ruining an otherwise good model.

To date, apart from the mix mentioned above, I have tried Xtracrylic (gloss and matt), both of which dry with a patchy, 'milky' finish, Liquitex, which again is unpredictable (fine as an artist's medium), and the relatively new Humbrol Matt Clear acrylic, which is worse than the Xtracrylic, and as much use, as a matt varnish, as t*ts on a fish !
I have also tried the Tamiya acrylic varnishes, both gloss and matt (flat), but find they remain 'tacky' for a very long time (weeks !) after application and, as I can only obtain these in the small, 17 ml bottles, it works out quite expensive, just to clear-coat even one model.
I have read about the Vallejo liquid matt varnish, which I can obtain in a larger bottle, and it at least sounds OK, but I'm wary of trying this if it doesn't do the job, due to the relatively high cost - I don't want to waste money on something that doesn't work, but quite prepared to buy it if it does work.
The other alternative I can obtain easily, is the Revell Aqua matt clear, but I know nothing of it's performance or dried finish.

So, if there are any suggestions for a matt clear acrylic, which works without problems, I'd be happy to hear them, together with information on the preferred thinner, if required.
I won't rule out an enamel matt clear, such as the Modelmaster product (Testor's Dull Coat?), IF this is known to age without 'yellowing'.

EDIT:- I forgot to mention, any varnish suggested is to be used in an airbrush - spray cans are not an option.

 

[fubar57]

Never had a problem with Tamiya Flat. For me it dries quickly but I've only applied it with a brush After doing some internet research last year, it seems that the Tamiya Gloss is to be used in conjunction with their flat paints to make them sorta glossy, for decal purposes....I think. I've got some Vallejo Flat. I'll give it a shot on the current GB and let you know the results.

 

[rochie]

i use valejjo matt coat, takes a couple of coats for a true mayy finish when i apply it with a brush, but dries quickly and i have not had a problem with it yet Terry

 

[Airframes]

Thanks Geo.
Karl, is that the Vallejo liquid clear matt, and where to you get it from - Model Hobbies ?
Apparently, the larger bottles of liquid clear matt are the same stuff as the Model Color clear matt.
If it woks OK, that's possibly what I'll go for, as the other alternatives are in very small containers, which works out the equivalent of around £25 for a decent amount, as I would get in, say, a 125 ml bottle of Humbrol Clear.
I'll wait to see what others suggest before committing.

 

[rochie]

Thanks Geo.
Karl, is that the Vallejo liquid clear matt, and where to you get it from - Model Hobbies ?
Apparently, the larger bottles of liquid clear matt are the same stuff as the Model Color clear matt.
If it woks OK, that's possibly what I'll go for, as the other alternatives are in very small containers, which works out the equivalent of around £25 for a decent amount, as I would get in, say, a 125 ml bottle of Humbrol Clear.
I'll wait to see what others suggest before committing.

yes sorry mate it is the model color clear matt.
i buy it in same size bottles as the model color paints from a local shop but model hobbies do it.

Paints for model kits

 

[turbo]

I've used Gunze flat clear with good results Terry.

One thing I've found to be important with flat coating, as with much airbrushing, is to thin the paint and slowly build it up with light passes until you are happy. If you get some frosting, it can sometimes be knocked down with buffing.

 

[Airframes]

Thanks Karl, I'll give it a go.

Kirby, thanks for the suggestion of Gunze - I haven't seen it at any of the usual outlets here in the UK, but I'll look around for it.
As for the the thinning, and light coats, that's exactly what I've always done, ever since first getting an airbrush some forty years ago.
I've just realised that this mainly happens, fortunately not very often so far, when I use Humbrol No.163 Dark Green satin enamel, either as a 'straight' colour, or mixed to produce, for example, a variant of Olive Drab.
Since Humbrol folded, the paints have been made at various factories, retaining the brand name, and have never been as good as the original. This particular colour used to be reasonable, but lately, in the last three or four years, it's been bl**dy awful, never drying with an even, satin finish, no matter whether applied by brush or airbrush, and I think this is having an effect on the clear coats, both gloss and matt.
The only reason I've continued to use Humbrol is because it's the only enamel brand I can obtain easily, other brands having to be ordered on-line, often with a minimum order quantity or postal restrictions. However, now that I've tried the Model Master range, I'll be changing to that brand, putting up with the on-line ordering and associated delays, and using a different matt clear coat too.

 

[stona]

I use the Vallejo stuff. It's the only acrylic I use and it does do the old clog the airbrush trick from time to time, but overall it works very well.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Airframes]

Thanks very much for that Steve, sounds good to me.
From what I've learned so far, the Vallejo liquid matt varnish, in the 500 (?) ml bottle, is the same stuff as the Model Colour, in the smaller bottles, so I'll order some, and give it a whirl.
Being Vallejo, I presume it can be thinned, if required, with water - or is it 'ready to use' ?

 

[stona]

I thin it a bit with water (regular corporation pop, straight out the tap) or sometimes with old fashioned Klear for a slightly satin result, though from your earlier post that's not an option for you.

I have seen people complaining of a whiteish blush or, worse, white flecks on the model surface after using this varnish. I think this is down to bad preparation and/or bad storage. I need hardly tell you, but for others reading, like any varnish containing a matting agent it is essential to thoroughly mix the varnish....and then do it again before applying. I have not had any problems with it.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Airframes]

Thanks again Steve, that's good enough for me.
Looks like I'll be trying some Vallejo stuff then - and it's a long time since I heard that 'corporation pop' description !

 

[T Bolt]

If the yellowing issue is the only reason you want to use an acrylic you might want to give Testors Dullcoat a try (It you can find it there). It's a lacquer not an enamel and I have been using it for 20 years with excellent results and have not noticed any yellowing. The bottle shown below goes for around $3.50 and will last quite a wile. At a guess I think I get 10 to 20 models out of a bottle.

 

[Robert Porter]

I have that but in their spray can version. Have you by chance used it that way at all?

 

[Crimea_River]

I've been using this lately and am satisfied. Just need to watch that it's not sprayed on too thick or it gets dusty looking but that could be true of any flat acrylic.

 

[Airframes]

Thanks Glenn and Andy.
I've looked around for the Dull Coat before now, but it's rather rare in the UK. Also, I'm wary of lacquers, and finding the right thinners etc. I'm beginning to think that Xtracolor PRU Blue I had trouble with might have been lacquer, rather than the stated enamel, and it has really clogged-up the airbrush.
I'll check-out the MM product, although, to date, I don' think I've seen it listed in the UK.

Most of the common acrylic products, such as Tamiya, Revell, Gunze etc, only seem to be available in very small bottles here in the UK, which, apart from working out expensive, is not really user convenient. As an example of expense, the Tamiya flat clear is around £2.50 for 10 ml, whereas the Vallejo Liquid matt clear, in a 500 ml bottle, is about £9.50 - that's the equivalent of 50 times the price for the Tamiya product !!
I thought I had solved the problem, when Humbrol introduced the matt version of their Clear acrylic, but it's absolutely terrible, and dries white overall !

 

[turbo]

Hey guys, I was in my Local Art Shop looking for Liquitex flow-aid to use with Lifecolor acrylics (see separate thread) and noticed they make a line of clear acrylic varnishes. They claim to be non-yellowing and are about US$25 for half a litre. Has anybody tried them?

 

[Airframes]

I have some of the Liquitex gloss and matt I use on paintings, and tried the matt on a scrap model.
It looks like, and performed the same as, Xtracrylic matt varnish, and dried the same, with greyish white streaks or cloudy finish.
It's good on paintings of course, but, even thinned, it seems rather 'heavy' for models, and this includes the gloss varnish.

 

[T Bolt]

I have that but in their spray can version. Have you by chance used it that way at all?

I started out using it in the spray can but sometimes would end up with the weird texture shown on the cowling in the picture below, so I switched to spraying the bottle with an airbrush.

I've looked around for the Dull Coat before now, but it's rather rare in the UK. Also, I'm wary of lacquers, and finding the right thinners etc.

I use the regular Testors airbrush thinner and it works fine.

 

[Robert Porter]

Thanks Glenn! I think I will decant the rattle can I have and use it that way. I have used Mr. Color Leveling Thinner with Testor's stuff very successfully before so will try that.

 

[N4521U]

I cheat...............
Tamiya rattle can flat clear!!!!!!! Loveit.
I use floor polish clear at decal areas, apply them, then light coat of floor polish to seal.
Then blast the crap out of it with Tamiya flat clear in the can!!!!!!!!!!
Applies nice and thin and evenly flat!
Bob's your uncle!