Me410 effective as a light bomber?

[wiking85]

I can't find much about the Me410's role as a bomber, other than some night bombing of Britain, as most seemed to have been used as bomber destroyers. How effective was it or would it have been as a daylight light bomber/ground attack aircraft?

 

[GregP]

I think of it as a slightly better Bf 110. It wasn't a bad light bomber at all in the absence of modern fighters but, if they were around, it needed surprise to be effective. The Me 410 would be much the same albeit slightly better at defending itself. Not sure the difference would mean increased survivability, though.

 

[davebender]

Me-410 carried almost twice as much internal fuel and fuel tanks were better protected.
Me-410 had 1,000kg bomb bay. Me-110 had no bomb bay.
Me-410 had dive brakes and proper dive bomber sight. Me-110 had neither.
Me-410 had armored cocoon around crew similar to Ju-88. Me-110 crew protection was more like a fighter aircraft.
.....I would hazard a guess Me-410 was structurally stronger as it was designed to dive bomb whereas Me-110 was only a fighter / recon aircraft.
Me-410 had state of the art remote barbettes to protect rear. Me-110 had hand operated machinegun(s).
Thanks to superior aerodynamics Me-410 was considerably faster even when both aircraft were powered by similiar DB605A engines.

Me-410 was a newer design and probably had a multitude of small improvements (over Me-110) which aren't obvious from paper specifications.

 

[stona]

And yet it couldn't carry a worthwhile bomb load to England unless it flew with the bomb bay doors ajar! Pelz didn't want it and tried to foist it onto Galland who did, but only modified as a day fighter.

Cheers

Steve

 

[wiking85]

And yet it couldn't carry a worthwhile bomb load to England unless it flew with the bomb bay doors ajar! Pelz didn't want it and tried to foist it onto Galland who did, but only modified as a day fighter.

Cheers

Steve

Source on Pelz rejecting it?

 

[GregP]

Like I said, a slightly better Me 110 that did not have much better survivability. It was 11.5% faster when it really needed another 20 mph and had no better maneverabilty or survivability.

I'd rather have an Me 410 than an Me 110, but would prefer a different plane altogether if I had a choice.

It's sort of like choosing between a short aword and a long sword in a field war when the other side has crossbows.

 

[dedalos]

And yet it couldn't carry a worthwhile bomb load to England unless it flew with the bomb bay doors ajar! Pelz didn't want it and tried to foist it onto Galland who did, but only modified as a day fighter.

Cheers

Steve

So it was unsuitable as a strategic bomber? Really? WHAT A SURPRISE!!!! An aircraft designed as a heavy fighter/light bomber, did not Carry enough bombs for the strategic role. What a failure from his designers!!!!

 

[dedalos]

Like I said, a slightly better Me 110 that did not have much better survivability. It was 11.5% faster when it really needed another 20 mph and had no better maneverabilty or survivability.

I'd rather have an Me 410 than an Me 110, but would prefer a different plane altogether if I had a choice.

It's sort of like choosing between a short aword and a long sword in a field war when the other side has crossbows.

Davebender answered you but you insist with your unsupported views

The Me 410 was the hardest german aircraft to intercept at night
It had a penetration speed of 580km/h with bombs, almost the max speed of Bf110G clean
You said it needed it 20 mph more. Give its Db603s C3 fuel and you have more than 20mph additional speed. It s not Me 410s failure the unavailability of C3 fuel
If it remained in production past summer 44 would have 603s with annular radiators for even more speed.
It had no better surviability when some fools employed it as day interceptor in the presence of thousands of American escort fighters
On the easten front, as a attack /light bomber aircraft would be unstopable
As a recce was vastly superior to the 110 , being a hard target even in the west when flown with GM1.
Not to mention its vastly more space for development in comparison with the 110
The 410 was a very good aircraft, with very good performance, good armor and armament, but needing careful piloting
Today it has a bad fame just because it was used in a role that it had not a chance to succed

 

[wiking85]

How about its potential utility on the Eastern Front, where the Allies didn't dominate the skies with fighters nearly to the same degree and the He111 could operated in daylight even as late as 1944?

 

[GregP]

Hi dedalos,

I said I wouldn't choose it as a light bomber and I wouldn't. You might notce that role is the title of this thread ... light bomber.

If you disagree, by all means ride one into the fray. I never mentioned it as a fighter or a night fighter. As either it was a bit better than the Bf 110, but not all that much. It might be worth remembering that Bf 110 was a very good night fighter, one of the better in the war. From my point of view, wars aren't won by night fighters, good though they may be. Necessary? Yes. Game changers? No.

I think your views aren't exactly mine, but mine aren't exactly unsupported either. Perhaps we read different books on the effectivness of the Me 410? Ya' think? It was better than the Bf 110, but no war winner. The Bf 109 and Fw 190 have MUCH better claims to that title than either the Bf 110 or the Me 210 / 410 ever will.

While the Bf 109 may be the best fighter ever built in terms of its effectiveness, the Bf 110 / Me 410 will never amount to much in history except as a mediocre aircraft that the Germans would have been better off replacing with a rather neglected Focke-Wulf design or something else entirely.

Good aircraft? Yes, and good flight characteristics, too. Good combat aircraft? Depends on which side you ask. The winning side never thought much of it and still doesn't.

 

[pbehn]

. As either it was a bit better than the Bf 110, but not all that much. It might be worth remembering that Bf 110 was a very good night fighter, one of the better in the war. From my point of view, wars aren't won by night fighters, good though they may be. Necessary? Yes. Game changers? No.

The Bf110 performed very well in the BoB as a light bomber/ground attack A/C the problem was only one squadron was trained in this speciality. This is discussed at length by Bungay in "The most dangerous enemy" I cant see the 410 being better but the Bf110 was badly used in the BoB in my opinion, perhaps on the eastern fron its time had passed though.

 

[GregP]

The Bf 110 was shown to require a fighter escort of its own during the BOB in all the account I read. It performed very well when not intercepted, as most aircaft that aren't intercepted do if the crews are well-trained, and the Luftwaffe was. The BOB spelled the end of the Bf 110 as an unescorted heavy fighter in the presence of modern fighter opposition.

That's not exactly a stellar perfoamnce.

 

[pbehn]

The Bf 110 was shown to require a fighter escort of its own during the BOB in all the account I read. It performed very well when not intercepted, as most aircaft that aren't intercepted do if the crews are well-trained, and the Luftwaffe was. The BOB spelled the end of the Bf 110 as an unescorted heavy fighter in the presence of modern fighter opposition.

That's not exactly a stellar perfoamnce.

I was not talking about it being used as a heavy fighter but as a light bomber. The LW did perform some surprise low level raids in the early days of the BoB they caught the RAF completely by surprise but as I said only one squadron was trained to do it. I agree completely with its performance as a fighter, but as a light bomber it could have been used much more effectively.

 

[davebender]

Almost 500 Me-110s operated as recon aircraft. Presumably they did well in that role also.

However I'll still take a Me-210C or Me-410 for any type mission over the older Me-110.

 

[pbehn]

Almost 500 Me-110s operated as recon aircraft. Presumably they did well in that role also.

However I'll still take a Me-210C or Me-410 for any type mission over the older Me-110.

I was just saying that early in the war the Bf110 had some success in ground attack but only one squadron was tained or used to do it. Obviously any later aircraft should be better, the issue is making the decision to use it as a ground attack light bomber and then training the crews to do it.

 

[GregP]

To be fair, the Bf 110 DID have some successes when unintercepted missions resulted in surprise. That probably holds true for most of the war. Not being seen while still having a punch is a good combination.

 

[stona]

Source on Pelz rejecting it?

Minutes from meetings at the RLM.

Cheers

Steve

 

[stona]

So it was unsuitable as a strategic bomber? Really? WHAT A SURPRISE!!!! An aircraft designed as a heavy fighter/light bomber, did not Carry enough bombs for the strategic role. What a failure from his designers!!!!

Who said anything about a strategic bomber? Maybe you should read before your fingers type.

It wasn't a very good bomber. It was a jack of all trades and a master of none, for which the blame lies firmly with the RLM's ever changing requirements.

Cheers

Steve

 

[wuzak]

Thanks to superior aerodynamics Me-410 was considerably faster even when both aircraft were powered by similiar DB605A engines.

The Me 410 used the more powerful DB 603, not the DB 605s of the Bf 110.

I don't think the Me 210 with DB605s was significantly faster than the Bf 110.

 

[Denniss]

Me 210 was heavier, eating up almost all aerodynamic speed gains. The dive bombing requirement probably caused an excessive structural strengthening and additional weight.