Metal detecting, Good or Bad

[tankie1rtr]

Hi Guys.
I would like to hear the views from other members about metal detecting, Is it good or is it bad, I know thatthere will be a collision of views on this point but I thought it would be interesting. OK on the Yorkshire moors near to where I live there are various crash sites of aircraft from pre WW2 to modern day, one of my hobbies is to walk the moors and visit the crash sites, some of them have small dedications to the men who crashed there. On the moor there are Halifax's, Spitfire's, B17's F86 Sabre, Stirling, Mosquito's, Hurricane, and a P51 Mustang. I visit the sites and spend a small time to refect what the situation must be like, I then offer a small prayer to the guys, I then say "Thank You" for your sacrifice, not only for myself but on behalf of all the other people who cannot be there to say it. I then leave and move onto the next wreckage. I was chatting to one guy who does metal detecting as a hobby and he wanted to know the locations, I have refused because they should be left in peace, but he told me of a wreck site that he and some of his collegues dug on the manchester moors, (Kinderscout) and they come across human remains, they informed the police, and the site was dug and 3 airmens remains were located, and given a full military funeral, he states that if it had not been for them with their detectors, the airmen would be forever lost and the next of kin would not have closure, what do you think of this,? is it ethical or unethical. I cant make my mind up,
Regards
tankie

 

[Wurger]

Unfortunately there have been so many soldieres with a missing status so far.Most of them died (were killed) with unknown circumstances.What is more there are still their relatives who ,for sure, want to know what happened to their next of kin.I think the metal dedecting is nothing wrong but the kind of searching should be running very careful especially if there is a possiblity of finding human remainds.It must be remembered we must pay our veneration to them.

 

[Marcel]

If a location is known as a WWII crash site, here in the NL, it becomes oficially a grave-site. This is protected and you're not allowed to dig. We have a special foundation here who excavates wrecks of WWII a/c. They are the only ones who are allowed to do so.

 

[109ROAMING]

I think that is very nice what you do tankie the pray thing,very nice to hear

My view,I think people should be allowed to do it sure,but if they ever come across a plane they should not be able to go further ,Reason 1 for benefit of preserving the aircraft,Reason 2 because they could disturb human remains

also if joe bloggs is out there where do you draw the line?ie somebody could find a wreck and take souvenairs which I'm sure has happened

I must admit I've thought about going on a hunt very seriously before.For a Corsair that went missing in 1944 about 500km north west of the city I live in.Wasn't shot down of course ,it was presumed engine failure...so its sitting in the bush somewhere if I came across the pilot I don't think I could handle it.I don't know what would be worse finding the pilot or finding the plane with out the pilot in it.There have been quite a few rumours about how apparently its sitting in a shed somewhere...The pilot was about to go on a tour in the pacific and thats why its said to be in a shed,the pilot didn't want to go and so faked his death.Hopefully! if it turns out to be true then There could be a perfectly good RNZAF corsair somewhere...I think theres about a 95% chance that this didn't happen.but it does seem sorta conicidence hes about to go on tour and then he misteriously disapears...who knows could even be in the Tasman

 

[timshatz]

Roaming, that is an interesting thought. Maybe people who put it out there have already looked for the bird and didn't find it. Trying to find an airplane is very hard. Look at Steve Fossett. Had plenty of professionals looking for him and a hiker stumbles across him a year later.

Not saying don't do it, just understand the odds of you finding anything are small.

Tankie, as for letting the guy know where the crashes are, that's a judgement call. "What are his motivations" and "do you trust the guy" would be the two questions to be asked. You know better than any of us.

 

[109ROAMING]

Roaming, that is an interesting thought. Maybe people who put it out there have already looked for the bird and didn't find it. Trying to find an airplane is very hard. Look at Steve Fossett. Had plenty of professionals looking for him and a hiker stumbles across him a year later.

Not saying don't do it, just understand the odds of you finding anything are small.

Tankie, as for letting the guy know where the crashes are, that's a judgement call. "What are his motivations" and "do you trust the guy" would be the two questions to be asked. You know better than any of us.

Yes I know what you mean Mate

thats half the reason I'm not there right now

There have been heaps of searches for it over the years and some people have even claimed to have found it but that turned out to be bull

As to the size of the area it could of gone down it is not known.He broke out of formation while banking with 2 other Corsairs,If he did take the plane somewhere it could be anywhere right now.The chances of finding it now to if it did crash are even slimmer now because of the overgrowth over the years

still is is a Corsair ,I may go hunting one day make myself feel a little better that I did try at least

 

[Von Frag]

For good or for bad, I have not decided yet, but they give these men a proper burial. It is in Russian, but if you click on the years on the left hand side you can see what they find and what they do.

''. 73- ''

 

[HoHun]

Hi Tankie,

>is it ethical or unethical. I cant make my mind up,

From a recent article in Flugzeug Classic, it appears that there can hardly be a legal way to approach a WW2 aircraft crash site with intentions of uncovering something unless you have prior permission by the authorities.

Assessing the danger, I believe it grows worse the older the site is. Disturbing a WW2 wreck that is the grave of an aircrew is improper, but our knowledge of WW2 history won't suffer much. However, older modern, medieval or even pre-historic artifacts still preserved in the soil are much more important to our understanding of the past, and that's where the "bad" metal detector guys do an incredible amount of damage today. Grave robbers destroyed the entire background knowledge about the Nebra Sky Disk for example by just looting the site and leaving no records, where proper aercheologists would have needed to record the lay of every fine variation in the soil covering the site to learn infinetely more about the age and the context than it was possible to learn from the made-up descriptions of the arrested diggers.

To modern archeologists, even the work of their early antecessors appears coarse and destructive though they were true scientist and strived for the best possible results - they are desperate when they think about modern metal-detector armed amateurs who destroy the most valuable aspect in the process of retrieving the metal artifacts that are only the core of the find. And there is an army of amateurs out there, augmented by quite a number of professional looters ... this has evolved into a major problem for science.

To cheer you up, there have been some positive reports on knowledgable and honest metal detector hobbyists too, who really did science great services by leaving their find undisturbed and quietly alerting the authorities to secure the site. It's perhaps not by coincedence that these reports (as I dimly recall) were from Britain! There seems to be a lot of respect for the national heritage in your country, and it's really great to see that in such a sensitive issue as metal detectors, there are enthusiasts for whom it's a question of honour to protect rather than to destroy!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[RabidAlien]

Personally, I think it all boils down (as stated before) to the intentions of the finder. There are folks out there who use metal detectors to add to their own personal stash, which only a few people will ever see (mostly to be bragged about). Then there are those who use them to discover things. I'd say check with your local museum, find out if they take donations you find while out wandering the moors, and if there's any legal issues involved with finding a crash site (such as Marcel stated), at which time I'd take some careful GPS readings and inform whatever authorities are over such things as to the exact location...maybe take some pics. But, as was also stated, if you happened to find something (dog-tag, airplane registration #, etc) that could change the status of a MIA to a confirmed KIA, thereby bringing closure to a family somewhere....I'm all for that. Bring our boys home!!! There are alot of museums/air museums that would love to have donated items, and if you find something interesting that nobody else wants, I see no problem with sticking it on your mantle.

BTW, if you haven't already, pick up a copy of "Shadow Divers" (Amazon.com: Shadow Divers: The True Adventure of Two Americans Who Risked Everything to Solve One of the Last Mysteries of World War II: Robert Kurson: Books) and read it. An awesome narrative on two guys, one a "souvenier hunter" and the other an explorer, who come together to solve the mystery of a U-boat wreck.

 

[Soren]

I say alert the authorities if you find anything BEFORE you start digging away, even if your intentions aren't to keep any of it, cause you could potentially be damaging the site.

Personally I've never done any metal detector searching or site hunting, I leave that to the professional archaeologists out there, that way I know everything is done as it should be done and every necessary precaution is taken not to damage or disturb anything.

That having been said I can't see the harm in discovering WW2 crash sites or battlefield remains, as long as you notify the government of any big finds you may encounter. If you say find an old German steel helmet by itself in some forrest then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to keep it - just don't take it off the unfortunate chap's head if you find it like that