Moral objections on warfare.

[plan_D]

They were insurgents loading weapons into the ground for future use. They're not part of a military organisation but they're certainly not innocent civilians.

They fight under civilian clothing, under the Geneva Convention they are considered spies and should be executed as spies. I would certainly hate to have a person like you in the foxhole next to me in any battle situation...

"Don't shoot him, he's a civilian" - "Why has he just shot at one of our helicopters?" - "He's still a civilian and he isn't threatening us, you can't shoot him"

Do you see AH-64Ds radomes painted bright blue while the rest is white with big black letters saying U.N on the side? No, you don't so that means it's going to kill you before you kill it, it's not going to wait to be shot at or it's not going to wait until they use those weapons before they kill them.

Those Iraqis were given a fair trial in those 5 minutes the Apache crew and Command said "They have been charged with spying and insurgency under the Geneva Convention...how do they plead? GUILTY!"

 

[GT]

I would like to know, is it OK for you to kill somebody who is willing to surrender or is unarmed? I hope that you don´t recommend such behavior.

It is just that kind of mentality that brought about the My Lai massacre!

Cheers
GT

 

[Nonskimmer]

Hashing out the written word of law as far as treaties and conventions are concerned is unfortunately the job of diplomats and politicians. Those people in the video were insurgents, terrorists, murderers. Was the second guy waving to surrender? Possibly. It all happened so fast. Once the threat was ID'd and the orders received, those boys in the Apache went to work. I might feel a little worse for those chopped up terrorists if actual innocent civilians weren't being mercilessly beheaded over there. I'm just a bit funny that way.

 

[trackend]

I would like to know, is it OK for you to kill somebody who is willing to surrender or is unarmed? I hope that you don´t recommend such behavior.

It is just that kind of mentality that brought about the My Lai massacre!

Cheers
GT

It is not a black and white situation GT, in the cold light of day it is probably correct that if someone is surrendering or unarmed you are right (I am not commenting on the particular video as I have not seen it)
But in some situations I can understand it for example you lose your mates attacking a position and the enemy comes out with their hands up I can see that killing them is although perhaps wrong very understandable. Turning ones emotions on and off in these situations is not as easy as typing one of these posts.
Disposing of a know threat IE IRA terrorists (Gibraltar 7/5/1988) in the process of carrying out a covert operation that will lead to the detonation of an explosive device amongst civilians this too I believe to be a justified operation where decisive force was applied and required.
The my lai incident as far as my memory goes was indeed an unwarranted attack on civilians although I'm sure some of the other guys on here are more informed on the circumstances surrounding the events at the time as I only remember it from the news articles of some 35 years ago.

 

[plan_D]

The action of the Apache crew was to prevent future violence and the death of either U.S troops or innocent civilians. It was a justified act. My thoughts of any situation would be to drop them before they drop you or anyone else.

Command and the crew knew they were insurgents and future threats. The threat was destroyed. That man might have been surrendering but what do you expect the Apache to do? Bring itself into a hostile situation to pick up a surrendering insurgent...? That would put the life of the gunner at risk, your own life at risk, the helicopter at risk and it would be immensely stupid.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I would like to know, is it OK for you to kill somebody who is willing to surrender or is unarmed?

Cheers
GT

Sure, If Hitler, or in today's world Osama Bin Laden surrendered to me, I'd take them prisoner and then rip their genitalia out through their nose!

Soldiers on the battlefield who surrender should be treated in accordance to the Geneva convention. Those people in those videos would like to think they are soldiers. They are far from being soldiers and from what happened to them it shows they aren't even good terrorists! I consider them the lowest scum of the earth and what happened to them was probably too good for them.

Although no combating Armies could ever walk away from a major battle and state that no atrocities were committed on the battlefield, at least the coalition forces in Iraq HAVE ATTEMPTED to identify wrongs committed, punish those who commit acts in violation of the Geneva Convention and attempt to correct them so they don't occur again. Those people in those videos are rewarded by their leaders for killing civilians and wouldn't dream of acting rational in western terms if ANY person surrended to them. Until such time when they could remotely honor a document like the Geneva Convention, they have no compassion from me!


I remember My Lai. It was horrible. Those responsible were punished. I also remember 9-11, the jury is still out!

 

[lesofprimus]

Ahem............

First of all, GT, lemme say one thing first........ If u served in ANY military, in ANY country, and u can sit there and say to this board that u think that the US Army is just flying around the desert killing civilians for fun, U ARE FULL OF SHIIT!!!!!!!!!

Either that, or ur either an ass-pumping faggot, or some sorta leftwing, still suckling on my mothers teat retard.....

No one, and I repeat, NO ONE who has worn a military uniform and has an IQ atleast over 86, can honestly say that...... It staggers my mind to hear this kind of vomit spewing crap here......

"Oh, the USArmy is so EVIL... They go around gleefully killing unarmed civilians in helicopters and steal the peasants chickens and eat their children........"

Please.......

If u believe ANY of those above little statements, u deserve a 9mm slug to the mouth......

This pussy bulllshiit non-informed crap makes me wanna throw up....

Are u gonna say that if u saw Bin Laden just walking through Al-Semaqua Market, and in ur hand u had a pistol, that u would not shoot him dead where he stands???

PLEASE DO YOURSELF AND ALL OF US A FAVOR AND DON'T REPLY TO THIS THREAD ANYMORE....... Youll just make it worse on urself..........

Infact, im about ready to lock this thread up....... Of all the things to say......... Jesus, im still amazed....

 

[unpunk01]

I don't like the fact that we are over there...AT ALL!
BUT I've seen the video and they were completely justified taking those combatants out!
GT, can you honestly say that if you patrolling those streets the next morning you wouldn't have appreciated that pilot pulling that trigger? Think about that before you answer.

 

[lesofprimus]

I don't like the fact that we are over there...AT ALL!

I agree, BUT.....

I feel we shouldnt be there ANYMORE.....

you wouldn't have appreciated that pilot pulling that trigger?

Great reply dude.... Just think, if he didnt, those RPG's and whatnot could have done what these sonsofbitches did in the vid clip below, kill American or Coalition troops...

******WARNING*******

This clip is not a normal clip...... I would NEVER post this clip for any other reason... I post this clip only to prove a point. THAT IS ALL...... Do not, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, view this clip if u have a problem watching a terrorist video clip...... Mothertrucking Bastards........

 

[Nonskimmer]

So the "innocents" do indeed have teeth, don't they?

Bastards!

 

[lesofprimus]

Im so glad that i was able to send a few of these assholes to meet Allah....

 

[GT]

Lesofprimus !

I have never said that the US Army is just flying around the desert killing civilians for fun, nor am I a left wing and I´m happily married with two son´s and they are themselves married.

I have also never thought of the US-Army as the Evil-side going gleefully killing unarmed civilians, it happened this time and the Apache could easily blown up the hidden weapons and taken the civilians as prisoners and that has happened before.

The other statements that you made:

1. ass-pumping faggot,

2. still suckling on my mothers teat retard. (your mothers teat?)

3. 9mm slug to the mouth

4. this pussy bullshit

Those statements tells me more about you then you´ll ever know.

I´m amazed that you are an Administrator on this site and can not behave in a better manor.

There is one thing to have different point of views and there is another thing to pour out ones hatred. I still believe that the incident could have been solved in a different way.

Regards
GT

 

[lesofprimus]

"What are the Rules of engagement for the Apache? Hardly to kill defenseless civilians."

"there is no justification for what they do."

"Apache helicopter murder civialians.mpg"

I have never said that the US Army is just flying around the desert killing civilians for fun,

Yea u did Meatball..... Maybe not the fun part, but u did........

Listen up dipshit... There are people here who spilt blood for our country, and would do it again if asked.. Dont sit there insult us by saying that kind of crap again.... Its not needed here, and it certainly didnt promote a good conversation..

I have also never thought of the US-Army as the Evil-side

Im sure u do every single evening while drinking ur warm milk.....

Heres an idea, before u spout off about some shiit that u have no idea wtf ur talking about, research it alittle bit and become more informed........

I notice u didnt respond to ur so-called "Military Service"... Figures...

it happened this time and the Apache could easily blown up the hidden weapons and taken the civilians as prisoners

THEY WERENT FUCKKIN CIVIALIANS MORON!!!!!! Cant u read???

In case ur too stupid to realize this, and as further proof of ur lack of military service, that vid clip was taken at night...... I suppose ur saying that the Apache shoulda landed in the dark and try to apprehend 3 insurgents who are hiding and carrying RPG's and AK-47's...

Gimme a freakin break....

still suckling on my mothers teat retard. (your mothers teat?)

Yea my mother, and shes been in the ground for almost a year now, so Im sure ull love it even more.....

Those statements tells me more about you then you´ll ever know.

LMFAO. Yea right tough guy, or should i call u Docter Phil.........

I´m amazed that you are an Administrator on this site and can not behave in a better manor.

God i wish I had a dollar everytime someone said that..... Since when does making u an Admin make u a more polite assshole???

and there is another thing to pour out ones hatred.

Yea hatred. Blood coursing through my veins hatred. Hatred for those bastards that kill innocent women and children in the streets of Haifa and Baghdad... Hatred for all u pussified retards that think, "Oh be nice, he dont have a gun..."

Go find another board pal.... The pussification of the world shall not be felt here........

 

[evangilder]

I think this might be a good place to lock this. Obviously there is a difference of opinion here.